" 🐐 isn't ran in the lower ranks."

[Focosa88-2111]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

I am more than willing to bet it’s because I’m bringing up Rein nerfs.

Your nerf ideas are really bad and not well thought at all tho, not to sound rude

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

@Focosa88-2111

and not well thought at all tho,

@BastionBabǝ-1672

3. Lower Rein’s Charge and Hammer damage (200 per charge, 65 per hammer swing).

This is because Rein is too superior over Winston (aside in cases where mobility is needed), and especially Orisa.

One Charge:

• puts Orisa on death’s doorstep (actually Charge + Discord = 390 damage, which is basically death for Orisa)
• puts Bastion on death’s doorstep (leaving him with 3hp, which is basically dead after 1 hammer swing)
• kills Reaper and Mei, 2 strong anti-tank and anti-group heros

This cripples his competition, and prevents his counters from being a threat to him.

Meanwhile his damage that his hammer help outputs as much damage as Wrecking ball, and 2k shy of Orisa. All while he has the superior Barrier, since it is VERY good for pushing (Orisa cannot relocate a barrier, and 2 barrier equals less HP than 1 Rein Barrier), and is very good defensively since it is 2000 HP, of which a good Rein will never let it drop to 0, unless to absorb some kind of burst damage like a Dva Bomb, or Riptire.

His damage should be akin to Winston, who does 60 DPS. 65 per hammer swing puts his DPS at 71.5, whereas his current DPS with 75/swing is 82.5. This makes Rein require 1 extra hammer swing to get a kill, which doesn’t seem like a lot since 3 swings at 65 damage per swing only equates to 195, but this actually huge since it makes Rein less threatening to a hero, especially a squishy DPS, who is getting healed.

Rein has far too much aggressive potential, and Orisa cannot compete without breaking her. Sure, she needs some QoL buffs, but she will never compete with Rein, because she is still inferior to him.

• 100 less health
• Cannot relocate a barrier (making her very defense-favored and stationary.)
• Charge puts her on death row.
• Her barriers melt rather easily, compared to Rein who can sustain more damage for longer periods, and can drop it at will, allowing him to be aggressive while his barrier recharges.

@Focosa88-2111

Yeah you should try to read and understand other people’s statements, because you’re just making straight up wrong arguments to support your point

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Pot, meet kettle.

Lmao.

[PuffyPony-1639]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

And he currently sits at the top across all tiers, aside from D/M/GM where he falls into the second spot

Yes, because he’s currently meta in high tiers. But, back during Dive, he still had a high pickrate in low tiers. He’s just the only really viable main tank option down there. Winston isn’t good in low SRs. Orisa is good in bunker, but bunker sucks.

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Because Rein is superior to her in every way

Actually, not really. Orisa is leagues better in bunker comps because of her ability to simultaneously attack and defend. The problem is that bunker comps rely on some other very-not-viable heroes to function well (i.e. Bastion and Junkrat), so while she’s easily the best tank for the job, the job is a bad one. Thus, she’s usually a bad pick.

Given that bunker comps suck, your only real option in low tiers is deathball. Which, that’s been the meta down there since like… the start of the game, pretty much. Who is the deathball main tank? Reinhardt. If you improved Bastion and Junkrat (more so Bastion) to be reliably viable, Orisa would almost certain overtake Reinhardt as the go-to low-tier tank, since the best way to handle bunker comps is with Dive, which low tiers can’t do.

[PuffyPony-1639]

Also, OP, you’re getting rather toxic. Just FYI. Take a walk and get some ice cream or something and come back.

[JimothyJohn-1949]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Coming from the same guy who resorted to saying I was bad at statistics.

Because they were. This is not directed at you but directed at your interpretation of the statistics. Attacking the premise of an argument is how you have discussions when you disagree with someone.

YOU chose to take that personally despite it not being an insult. I was just pointing out that the premise of your argument was faulty. If the premise is faulty no one can ignore that.

@BastionBabǝ-1672

You didn’t start counter arguing me until after you insulted me.

Its not an insult. Having a bad premise does not make you an idiot. Just misguided. You are taking the debate far to personally. If you cannot take critique of your argument you should refrain from sharing it in a public forum where people will do so.

I told you your interpretation was terrible and then explained very concisely why it was.

But instead of addressing my argument YOU took a non-personal observation of your argument and made it personal by ignoring my very reasonable explanation and telling me I could not read.

Your premise is bad. Time to head back to the drawing board.

[Volnus-11696]

There is a flaw in the methodology here though. You’re looking at the most picked heroes in an overall statistic without factoring in the pool of each class. There are 16 DPS character’s while there are only 7 tanks and 6 supports. This lack of choice (especially in low elo where, they might not always know what is “best”), inflates the stats if you look at them incorrectly.

This being said when you add up the total number of pick rates for each champions in low elo your breakdown is as follows. I selected bronze for this data set.

DPS: 34.04%
Support: 35.05%
Tank: 30.92%
(there was a round up by .01% so the total comes out to be 100.01% adding the above numbers)

The spread here actually shows there are more people playing DPS than tanks (Which are scarce) and they are selecting too many supports. That being said this is a healthy spread but there is no clear indication that goats is being ran in low elo

Edit: Fixed grammatical issue

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

@JimothyJohn-1949

YOU chose to take that personally despite it not being an insult.

Intent is very different from delivery. It most certain did come across as an insult.

My points were tied into that data that I pulled. Sure, the title is clickbait compared to my actual point, but the fact of the matter is that several people, not necessarily directed at you, derailed this thread and completely stepped over my support for my arguments.

@JimothyJohn-1949

Your premise is bad. Time to head back to the drawing board.

May or may not be, but I’ve been at this for far longer than you or anyone realizes. You don’t have to agree with my point, but in that case everything that can be said, has been said. Unless you bring new points to the table, I won’t respond.

[JimothyJohn-1949]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Intent is very different from delivery. It most certain did come across as an insult.

Perception also skews intent and delivery. For my part I am sorry you took it as an insult. I have already explained it was not a personal attack. So you can calm down.

@BastionBabǝ-1672

May or may not be, but I’ve been at this for far longer than you or anyone realizes.

When making an argument one of the worst cases you can make is from a point of authority. In this case you have done so and even worse sited yourself as that point of authority.

Siting from authority is a poor argument due to it assuming that both sides draw their conclusions from that authority. Which we both don’t. Because clearly siting yourself as an authority on data interpretation is confirmation bias at its worst.

@BastionBabǝ-1672

You don’t have to agree with my point, but in that case everything that can be said, has been said.

Save that you have yet to actually address my points and have instead chosen to side step them by taking offense to a non-personal observation. So if everything that can be said has been said can I assume you have surrendered the point to me?

If yes can I assume you will be going back to the drawing board to develop a new premise? I look forward to reading it.

[anon77446225]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

or are you going to be a toxic idiot

Please refrain from this kind of communication on the forum or you will be reported.

[Mitrovarr-1405]

Actually, Orisa and Roadhog are some of the most fun tanks in the game. They’re not played because Rein facestomps Orisa completely and because Roadhog is just bad and can’t help feeding.

[Focosa88-2111]

@Mitrovarr-1405

Actually, Orisa and Roadhog are some of the most fun tanks in the game.

I like them too, but most people don’t find them fun or easy to pick up. Also Orisa can be extremely powerful against Reinhardt, but nobody knows how to play her

[Mitrovarr-1405]

The problem is when Reinhardt gets correct support (Zarya and Brigitte) Orisa has nothing she can do to stop him, and has no counter for his ult, while her ult is nearly worthless.

[Volnus-11696]

Yep no one knows how to play Orisa thats the problem. Not the poor damage, finicky Halt, lack of mobility or HP it’s that no one knows how to play her. Just lol.

[Volnus-11696]

I wanted to do a followup as well where I run the numbers for the total pick rate in Grandmaster as opposed to bronze. Grandmaster is where you would obviously expect only (or mostly) meta picks and the stats are much different.

DPS: 24.48%
Support: 37.4%
Tank: 38.12%
This is an unhealthy spread and shows that they are indeed running Goats unlike bronze.

Again this is bronze below.
DPS: 34.04%
Support: 35.05%
Tank: 30.92%

[Nibelung-1264]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Running Dva and Winston didn’t mean you were running dive, but those 2 were not near-must picks like Rein and Ana are now.

Funny story, back in the height of dive, Rein was the most picked tank, according to Blizzard data. Yet, people would call for Rein buffs all the time because pro play was 99% Winston & D.va.

We are seeing a similar pattern with Rein/Zarya. Those two have good synergy, so when the pro meta favors one of them, they will run the other as well. And Rein, which received a grand total of zero buffs in the last year, suddenly is “overpowered”.

(I agree that Rein is OP and the only thing holding him back was his bugs. But that is my opinion since launch, and I was laughed at back in the dive era.)

Reinhardt is not only a good tank, but a very straightforward one. If you have no tanking experience at all, it’s much easier to play Rein than any other tank in the game. An amateur Rein against a proper Rein main, however, will feel like his team can’t support him enough, and that he can’t create space at all.

Back in the peak of dive, people were trying to learn Winston and D.va, and taking a really hard time understanding all the nuances of tank play. And when in doubt of their tanking skills, they went Rein if necessary. Now that Rein is meta, people gravitate towards him, because if you pick Wrecking Ball, Orisa or Winston and you don’t snowball the match, your team will ask you to switch to Rein. And many oblige.

[poggy-11148]

hey we could ban brig forever and see what happens

[Zenkai-11876]

Picking the characters doesn’t mean you’re playing the comp, do you actually think people in all the lower ranks including mine know how to run a organized comp lol.

[Aster-2434]

Reinhardt is picket because he is the best tank to defend people right now with no replacement

Lucio is picked because he just need to exist to be usefull, so he works in lower ranks
Mercy had the best pick rate over all heroes at some point, do you think those people give up on her alredy?

I play in plat, and since goats is a thing I SAW IT ONLY ONCE.

[Slinkylinky-11538]

@Udoroth-1433

hey thanks for ruining other peoples matches by playing in a rank you didnt belong in

must feel good to trash lower skilled players with “any dps or tank easily”

How else was I supposed to rank it up? The account has to start somewhere right? The account was in bronze, I had to rank it up.

Is there no winning with you people?

[Krikenemp-1823]

I don’t see your point. Like half of GOATS comp isn’t in the top 6 for any of those ranks you mentioned, so they’re not running GOATS. Seems pretty simple really. You also have no proof that those in the top 6 who do make up GOATS are often being picked together in the same comp.