" 🐐 isn't ran in the lower ranks."

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

Add up all the Tank, Support, and DPS pickrates.

You get this:

Tanks: Total pickrate of 32.97
Supports: 35.17
DPS: 31.87

So DPS are picked less than supports or tanks.

More DPS or not, the GOATS heros are disproportionately more powerful.

@Mitrovarr-1405

to make up for that, her weapon has to be pretty crap.

Which it is at the start, and thats why her drain buff was a bad idea. It moved her away from having low-mid balance damage, and gave her OP high damage which makes her a killing monster.

@Mitrovarr-1405

Remember, she’s not more “expensive,” than DPS. She is just another character and is not supposed to be stronger than S76, or Symmetra, or whatever.

Which her energy drain buff broke.

@Focosa88-2111

Because inertia benefits from speed boosts, I’d say. That’s why Moira jumps while fading, for example.

If you see a “ramp down”, that’s probably because there’s acceleration in the game. I don’t know if it affects slows and speed boosts tho. It may make it look smoother, but it’s insignificant

Then what I’m saying is that the inertia and HPS effect are what plays a role in the constant crossfading.

That bit of inertia and HPS carry over, and thus constantly switching gives his team those benefits of constantly moving fast WHILE getting healed.

@Megadodo-11847

Goats is actally rein dva zarya Lucio moira brig

False, Zen is used more than Moira is. Moira is usually a sub, much like Ana is.

Watching OWL thus far, and Ive seen a lot of Brig-Lucio-Zen comps than I have with Moira, or even Ana being a fill.

I watched the most recent matches played today, and I’ve seen Ana more than I’ve seen Moira, and I’ve consistently seen Brig-Lucio-Zen.

@JimothyJohn-1949

Your interpretation of the data is pretty terrible to be honest.

Tanks and healers tend to have high pickrates due to the fact the dps category dwarf’s both by a large margin.

And you’re reading comprehension is bad. I dive into their problems, and thus I’m not basing it all off pickrate. There is a reason why each of the heros are highly picked. I explain those reasons.

[Mitrovarr-1405]

I’m curious what the pickrates look like in high rank alone. Low ranks don’t run Goats and only rarely run triple tank.

On the subject of “Blizzard doesn’t understand what differentiates a tank and a DPS”, isn’t it ridiculous that Symmetra and Zarya basically have the same weapon? And Zarya has both a higher maximum damage and an easier time getting to that damage?

[Yara-11173]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Add up all the Tank, Support, and DPS pickrates.

You get this:

Tanks: Total pickrate of 32.97
Supports: 35.17
DPS: 31.87

So DPS are picked less than supports or tanks.

More DPS or not, the GOATS heros are disproportionately more powerful.

Those are very good numbers if you ask me. ~2 variation from a supposed balanced 33.3_%? More than close enough, it’s very close.

I am not saying the GOATS heroes are balanced nor that GOATS is balanced, I’m just saying the pick rates need to be looked at in context.

I’ve made suggestion myself on how to tone down Reinhardt, which is my main btw.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

I’m saying the heros played in GOATS are the same heros being picked on ladder. Mercy had a 15-16% pickrate back when she was reworked, and she was a must-pick. Since then, we’ve had 4 more heros get added to the game, and rein is sitting just shy of 12%. The more heros you have, the lower the theoretical max pickrate.

Thus Rein, and almost Ana, and a near-must pick.

@Slinkylinky-11538

I just bought another account. In 2 days I went from bronze to Diamond simply using hammond.

I could of done this with most dps and tanks easily.

Honestly. I lost like 1 bronze game, 2 silver games, and 1 gold game.

Yes. Mechanical skill alone can carry you to Diamond.

That’s not what we were talking about at all.

@PuffyPony-1639

and I’ve seen GOATS like… three, maybe four times. It’s kinda of like how having DVa, Genji, Zen, and Mercy didn’t automatically mean you were running Dive. GOATS isn’t just 3-3, it’s also the strategy that accompanies the specific comp.

I’m not talking about the strategy, I’m talking about the heros.

Running Dva and Winston didn’t mean you were running dive, but those 2 were not near-must picks like Rein and Ana are now. Then every other GOATs hero comes shortly after.

@PuffyPony-1639

Healers and tanks always have inflated pickrates, because they compete far less for a slot than DPS do.

rein is nearing must-pick. That’s far from inflated pickrates.

@Lycaon-11844

Lol I see this is the thread of playing it fast and loose with data. This is what happens when people try to draw their own conclusions from statistics without context.

This is what happens when people have no counter argument.

[Focosa88-2111]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

That bit of inertia and HPS carry over, and thus constantly switching gives his team those benefits of constantly moving fast WHILE getting healed.

Actually no, inertia do very little for your allies, as it only applies to players in the air at the moment of the crossfade going into healing. Lucio uses it primarily (and almost only) for himself

[anon77446225]

@Lycaon-11844

Lol I see this is the thread of playing it fast and loose with data. This is what happens when people try to draw their own conclusions from statistics without context.

That’s because I assume most people didn’t take a stats class in High school or college. So they see numbers and fill in the gaps. A common mistake with people who aren’t used to working with numbers/data.

[Megadodo-11847]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Add up all the Tank, Support, and DPS pickrates.

You get this:

Tanks: Total pickrate of 32.97
Supports: 35.17
DPS: 31.87

So DPS are picked less than supports or tanks.

More DPS or not, the GOATS heros are disproportionately more powerful.

@Mitrovarr-1405

to make up for that, her weapon has to be pretty crap.

Which it is at the start, and thats why her drain buff was a bad idea. It moved her away from having low-mid balance damage, and gave her OP high damage which makes her a killing monster.

@Mitrovarr-1405

Remember, she’s not more “expensive,” than DPS. She is just another character and is not supposed to be stronger than S76, or Symmetra, or whatever.

Which her energy drain buff broke.

@Focosa88-2111

Because inertia benefits from speed boosts, I’d say. That’s why Moira jumps while fading, for example.

If you see a “ramp down”, that’s probably because there’s acceleration in the game. I don’t know if it affects slows and speed boosts tho. It may make it look smoother, but it’s insignificant

Then what I’m saying is that the inertia and HPS effect are what plays a role in the constant crossfading.

That bit of inertia and HPS carry over, and thus constantly switching gives his team those benefits of constantly moving fast WHILE getting healed.

@Megadodo-11847

Goats is actally rein dva zarya Lucio moira brig

False, Zen is used more than Moira is. Moira is usually a sub, much like Ana is.

Watching OWL thus far, and Ive seen a lot of Brig-Lucio-Zen comps than I have with Moira, or even Ana being a fill.

I watched the most recent matches played today, and I’ve seen Ana more than I’ve seen Moira, and I’ve consistently seen Brig-Lucio-Zen.

@JimothyJohn-1949

Your interpretation of the data is pretty terrible to be honest.

Tanks and healers tend to have high pickrates due to the fact the dps category dwarf’s both by a large margin.

And you’re reading comprehension is bad. I dive into their problems, and thus I’m not basing it all off pickrate. There is a reason why each of the heros are highly picked. I explain those reasons.

Goats is rein, dva, zarya, lucio, moira, and brig.

All other comps calling themselves goats are using the term incorrectly…they are a variant of goats

[PuffyPony-1639]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

rein is nearing must-pick. That’s far from inflated pickrates.

Not really. He’s always had a higher pickrate in low tiers. Orisa sucks, and Winston isn’t good in low to mid tiers. So, Reinhardt is basically guaranteed a slot outside of the handful of maps where Orisa is decent. It’s the same phenomenon, just with viability of his competition factored in.

@Megadodo-11847

Goats is rein, dva, zarya, lucio, moira, and brig.

All other comps calling themselves goats are using the term incorrectly…they are a variant of goats

Stop being pedantic. Dive originally featured Lucio and Zarya, but people understood Dive a year later to mean Mercy and DVa. Metas evolve. GOATS is the same way. We’re aware it originally used Moira. It does not anymore. It still uses a 3-3 with 5/6 of the same heroes revolving more-or-less around the same strategy. By popular definition, GOATS is 3-3 deathball featuring Lucio, Reinhardt, Brigitte, Zarya, DVa, and a flex support spot that’s shifted from Moira to Ana to Zenyatta.

[Fritz-11233]

The “GOATs heroes” make up the majority of the Tank/Support rosters.

Just because you’re running Reinhardt and Ana doesn’t mean it’s GOATs, that could just be part of a standard 2-2-2 comp

[Focosa88-2111]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

I’m saying the heros played in GOATS are the same heros being picked on ladder.

1. That is not absolutely true. Moira and Mercy are not that played in GOATs
2. 3 of the 7 tanks of the roster are kinda underpowered due to the general meta (not because of GOATs) and not fun to play/not easy to pick up
   5 of the 6 healers are popular. Only Brigitte seems to not be picked a lot, compared to a lot of heroes. In those 5, there are 2 healers that are not part of GOATs

Dude I know you’re tired of GOATs, I am too, but you can’t just go and say whatever you want to point fingers

[Mitrovarr-1405]

@Megadodo-11847

Goats is rein, dva, zarya, lucio, moira, and brig.

All other comps calling themselves goats are using the term incorrectly…they are a variant of goats

Goats, as used on the forum, includes the much more common variant where Zenyatta is used in place of Moira.

[Mitrovarr-1405]

The tanks played in Goats are the same tanks played on ladder. It’s Rein and Zarya, or Rein and Dva, 80%+ of the time, even in lower ranks that never run Goats. But yeah, supports are different, Ana is used a ton and isn’t in Goats.

[Focosa88-2111]

@Mitrovarr-1405

The tanks played in Goats are the same tanks played on ladder. It’s Rein and Zarya, or Rein and Dva, 80%+ of the time, even in lower ranks that never run Goats.

Yes, but Orisa is “not enjoyable”, Roadhog is kinda bad and “not funny” either, and Hammond is extremely difficult to play. Winston is the most surprising one, but he has never been very popular in lower ranks I believe

Those 3 tanks played in GOATs are the most popular not because of the meta, but because the others are just not played

Also, according to Overbuff, Orisa is kinda popular in bronze and silver. That’s a big surprise

[PuffyPony-1639]

@Focosa88-2111

Also, according to Overbuff, Orisa is kinda popular in bronze and silver. That’s a big surprise

She’s combined with Reinhardt a lot for the double barrier comps. It’s hard to beat down there.

[Focosa88-2111]

Yo buddy I think you need to cool off and come back later, you’re taking this way too seriously.

[JimothyJohn-1949]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

You want to have a civilized discussion or are you going to be a toxic idiot and throw low-blow insults and ignoring the entire context and premise.

Coming from the person whose only counter argument is “Your reading comprehension is bad”.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

@PuffyPony-1639

Not really. He’s always had a higher pickrate in low tiers.

And he currently sits at the top across all tiers, aside from D/M/GM where he falls into the second spot.

@PuffyPony-1639

Orisa sucks,

Because Rein is superior to her in every way.

@Focosa88-2111

That is not absolutely true. Moira and Mercy are not that played in GOATs

And Rein has a bloated pickrate in ladder, far above everyone else.

Ana is creeping up on him, but this is where what you said can be applied, Ana is not that played in GOATS.

Rein is a problem in ladder as well at pro-league. Same with Zarya, Lucio, and Zen.

That’s my point. People haven’t figured that out and are caught up on whether Moira is the main support in GOATS.

@Focosa88-2111

3 of the 7 tanks of the roster are kinda underpowered due to the general meta (not because of GOATs) and not fun to play/not easy to pick up

And Rein is that General meta. Same for Zarya, Lucio, and Zen.

Rein is a big factor as to why Orisa is in a bad spot.

@Focosa88-2111

5 of the 6 healers are popular. Only Brigitte seems to not be picked a lot, compared to a lot of heroes. In those 5, there are 2 healers that are not part of GOATs

And I’ve discussed the fatty power that can be snipped away to make this game more healthy, across all tiers.

@Focosa88-2111

Dude I know you’re tired of GOATs, I am too, but you can’t just go and say whatever you want to point fingers

I’m not. every point in this thread has a given reason to exist. GOATS isn’t the meta across all tiers, but Rein, Zarya, Zen, and Lucio are more powerful both in and out of GOATS.

Popularity only applies to Genji and Mercy.

[Focosa88-2111]

Yeah you should try to read and understand other people’s statements, because you’re just making straight up wrong arguments to support your point

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

@JimothyJohn-1949

Coming from the person whose only counter argument is “Your reading comprehension is bad”.

Coming from the same guy who resorted to saying I was bad at statistics.

@JimothyJohn-1949

Your interpretation of the data is pretty terrible to be honest.

You didn’t start counter arguing me until after you insulted me.

Meanwhile Rich has done this across multiple threads instead of counter arguing against me.

@Focosa88-2111

Yo buddy I think you need to cool off and come back later, you’re taking this way too seriously.

No, I’m just tired of Rich putting on this high and mighty attitude then become a toxic troll.

I am more than willing to bet it’s because I’m bringing up Rein nerfs.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

Pot, meet kettle.