I agree that infinite TP was a net nerf to “fluid” Symmetra gameplay.
What it did buff severely is (the static) “spawn taxi” gameplay. I don’t know about others, but this adds so much unnecessary mental pressure to me when playing Symmetra. You can’t fail at spawn taxi-ing, but you can fail using TP in the middle of a fight and then you wished you had a spawn taxi, so why not spawn taxi?
To avoid this pressure / mental trap personally, I stopped playing Symmetra until her TP is either reverted or has less in-fight downtime.
I prefer the current version of teleporter. When I had the last TP, none of my team would use it ever. I like being able to bridge that gap and get to/from areas when needed. You can pop in/out, doing great damage, then back to safety.
Instead of reverting, we could simply start the TP cooldown after placement rather than when it is destroyed, though that may be too powerful.
Still, no revert please. I like it more as-is and get more use out of it.
I mean you have to leave your TP to relatively safe position and never do anything before somebody destroys it. With old you could have it TP out of gravs and turret bombs or flanks with TP were much more common. You could always basically have it if needed in the moment, not like “hey Symm TP me high ground” “sure just wait 10 seconds m8!” Yo team I got your spawn tp back in 20 secs, just hold on while I have some downtime
She is just overall less flexible, like how Sombra is with infinite TP. Or Reinhardt would be with infinite shield, but couldn’t move barrier or himself, if he was helding shield.
Nobody is saying you have to leave the TP up indefinitely. There’s nothing making you do that. You can judge when to take it down and have it reserved. Then again, most the times I do slam down a TP to escape grav, my team just sits there in grav and dies anyway. Also, like I already said, I’d prefer it if the cooldown started right after she places it.
None of it is going to convince me to bring back old TP. I prefer the new one.
except no matter what you do, you are experiencing much higher down time on TP and forced to not be able to adapt to the situation as much (esp post shield nerfs where tanks, and consequently teams, reposition much more often).
Honestly, I just drop it at spawn to give my team a faster respawn in most games. Teleporting 30ish meters lets my team get back into the fight 5-6 seconds faster. Multiplied over every death across six people, and that extra time adds up. As long as my team doesn’t have spawn advantage (e.g., the first half on defense, the last half on offense, or every round of Control maps), it’s usually more valuable than whatever plays my teammates will inevitably not follow through with. I don’t expect people to play like OWL in solo queue.
Honestly, what Symmetra needs is a full rework. Not tweaks, not a new ability or two, but a full rework from top to bottom. She isn’t even a builder anymore, she’s a squishy Zarya with a defensive ult. Her buildings should be the centerpiece of her kit.
And I’m saying the benefits of the infinite uptime outweigh the cost of the downtime. Good placement can still manage great uptime, and keeping it for necessary moments can still work well as is.
It’s not something you’re going to change my mind on.
I highly disagree. pretty much every use case infinite tp has, you could achieve with old finite tp because legit how it’s placed and how you interact with it hasn’t really changed. The only thing that did change “use cases” (in quotes because not actually use case changed, but rather having more spots) was the placement range of which has nothing to do with what’s being pointed out as being the problem: the cd mechanic.
you do realise that you’re contradicting yourself right? like if you’re saving it up for necessary moments, you’re getting low uptime (and consequently, getting low hero uptime on sym because tp is her core tool to do anything meaningful i.e. her all-in-one utility, engagement, disengagement and burst-combo-enabling tool).
Old finite tp only had a high experienced down time if either:
tp got destroyed really quickly whether by bug or by enemy
or you were doing a quick 1-way trip
but now, no matter how well you place it, time it or whatever, you’re being punished with as much down time as if it got destroyed immediately. and tbh, realistically more because when you place it down for long periods of time, you’re realistically not going to get 100% utilisation of the uptime (i.e. there will be a portion of the uptime where you’re playing as if you didn’t have tp)
and when you factor in all the nerfs and powershifts made to tanks to kill double shield, goats and static comps, you get:
tanks moving around more —> teams move around more
teams moving around more —> where you should be putting tp AND what you should be putting tp down for changes more
you obvs can’t keep up as well with that when tp now has a long cd buffer before you can repurpose and/or reposition it compared to if you had a tp whose cd starting ticking away immediately
i.e.
there’s even less demand for 1 tp in 1 spot for long periods of time (not that such a demand was high in the first place), AND
as shown visually before: you get a tp cast back faster with the old tp cd mechanic than current which better suites the pace of the game
The tp’s spawn taxi functionality is fairly strong imo, but I won’t argue that it’s hella boring.
TP’s for other handy shortcuts get destroyed in fairly short order, in my experience. Not that much difference to self-expring tp.
I highly disagree because tp is sym’s core uptime tool. If you want to provide utility, tp’s the main tool to give that. If you want to zone or damage, tp is your way in AND out as well as being your burst-combo-enabling tool.
What the infinite tp nerf did was drastically spike up the down time on that core ability, which makes a HUGE difference in gameplay. it’d be like giving rein’s shield a 10s cd that only starts upon deactivation or destruction. or making tracer’s blinks’ cd and recall cd (all of them) only start when all of them have been used. etc. with other heroes’ core abilities. i.e. such a change spikes up the hero’s down time A LOT and possibly even kills off the entire flow of their gameplay.
here are some plays that were only possible when you don’t have a huge chunk of force tp down time in between.
https://youtu.be/zZpoyvNb96A?t=123 : 1st tp to effectively give him access to hard cover and elevation escape without hard disengaging. 2nd tp to escape the 2+ rush on him + take out widow. with new tp, he would’ve hard disengaged when he went off high ground or at most got up and had to rely on teammates to save him from winston or the subsequent rush after. defs no widow pick with new tp. https://youtu.be/Wf2YWc1Bb0M?t=476 : 1st tp for dueling ball. 2nd tp for bombing enemy backline. he wouldn’t have tp back in time for that with new tp https://youtu.be/H-oVdX7BUyc?t=131 : 1st tp to get the rein back up on high ground but he noticed too late and it got destroyed (can’t really blame tp for that, it was even placed where he was). 2nd tp for the flank on zen. with new tp he would’ve missed the flank on zen https://youtu.be/H-oVdX7BUyc?t=896 : 1st tp to escape winston. 2nd tp for the moira pick and double orb on brig. new tp wouldn’t be up in time for the 2nd play. https://youtu.be/ge69YRomZ7E?t=328 : 1st tp for bomb (attempt) and better angle. had 2nd tp available for escaping the rein but messed up cast hence death (can see the animation for tp being quickly brought up but canceled; he would’ve made it too). but with new tp, there wouldn’t have been a chance at all. https://youtu.be/SwayP0ohb14?t=434 : 1st tp for sending turret to allies for peel + angle + rein dodge, 2nd tp for hanzo pick. legit with new tp, he would’ve gotten tp back at the time he got the pick on hanzo with old tp and for all we know hanzo probably would’ve been healed up by then in the new tp situation.
The best way to keep the best of both worlds is to keep the infinite TP, increase the CD to 12s but make it start immediately upon placement, and then give it a minimum 2s CD upon destruction. This basically reverts it to the previous version, while also keeping it infinite.
That is absolutely BS and makes no sense. Infinite TP takes time to gain value anyway. It’s going to be the same as before, you just won’t have to redeploy it every 10s.
Like I said the CD should start immediately, with a minimum of 2s before redeployement
Honestly bud, I’m not sure why you’re continuing to argue with me. You’re not going to text me into submission, and I’m not going to respond because I disagree with your claims and you’re determined to make this go on forever as though you can change my mind, after I’ve told you twice (now three times):
I will politely decline the argument. No, that doesn’t mean I concede at all, it means it’s not worth arguing with you over. My version is what’s in the game, and that’s enough for me right now. Goodbye.
Sorry, I wrote that kind of imprecisely and your read it wrong.
I meant that even the infinite tp ends up getting destroyed anyway, and ends up lasting about as long as it would have if it was the old tp. We rarely get the benefit of the extra duration.