Given your opinions on the matter, it’s hard to see it as a joke from you specifically
I’m not offended by it, I simply don’t find your arguements worthy of my time at this point. I’m not interested in trying to argue with someone that can’t be budged, it’s a lost cause.
No, this is anecdotal. There’s no argument here.
He’s gotta claw through the barrier first. And that’ll still take a while.
Yes I can, I’ve done it multiple times. I don’t die to it. …most of the time at least.
Start up times on Charge, as pointed out below your postings can be feeding if you’re too aggressive. Or dumb.
Not with Winston, Reinhardt or Orisa, no. I’ve had times when I get hooked by Roadhog as Zarya (and countless times as Genji…). But I’m pretty smart about how I position and watch my barrier health. Years of working with a team in early-to-late beta and early Overwatch solidified those strategies on most maps.
That’s fair. But, dying from that is the nature of the risk and isn’t really a problem from a balance standpoint. At least in the broad sense.
Anyone in Overwatch can really succeed if resources are put into them to make them succeed. Reinhardt dominating metas because Zarya and/or Ana put their resources into him (and thereby also benefiting) isn’t really that special. Similar investments into other heroes have also yielded strong results; at least until it doesn’t work anymore. Genji used to be the Nanoboost king; but nowadays Nanoboost finds better benefits and resources put into Tanks.
This is because Tanks just yield better results overall. The whole point with the “tanks are borderline broken” is how much benefit you get when you put those resources into them. Their incredible defenses; crowd control; ultimates and competitive damage are just that great. Their biggest weaknesses is usually their large size which makes them easy targets; but that’s why they get all those perks too.
That large size also benefits them too. Why put Zarya’s barrier on the squirrely-looking and evasive Tracer, when you can put it on Reinhardt - a huge, dangerous and attractive target and reaps the benefits of higher energy returns? Why put Nanoboost on Soldier, when his Helix Rocket - despite doing more damage - will only hit one target and be stopped by barriers? Why not put it on Reinhardt who’s Firestrike goes through barriers and other targets for 150 damage each? Both benefit from the defense buff; but Reinhardt also gets to add armor on top of that, and still can pull out his barrier when he needs it. And Earthshatter vs. Tactical Visor? Which has bigger impact? Both are stopped the same way; but only Earthshatter knocks down.
Now let’s look at Overwatch 2.
Reinhardt won’t be able to benefit from Zarya’s coverage anymore, but Zarya will still benefit from covering her team with barriers. She won’t have a big target like Reinhardt anymore, but that’s not really hurting her. But now she gets two charges of Projected Barrier, so she can cover two targets at once. Or if she’s taking especially heavy damage, she can double up on the barrier on herself and still reap the benefits (since each barrier can only charge up to a specific maximum). Reactively; she’ll always have a charge of Projected Barrier in case of a lethal attack or attempt to cover an ally when needed, too. And this will still benefit her. So there are no downsides to losing Reinhardt, D.va or Winston here. She also benefits from a universal Tank passive that reduces the effects of CC and Ult-charge gain. And, as far as I can tell, she’s still capable of delivering huge amounts of damage when fully charged. So everything here is a net-positive for her.
Let’s look at Reinhardt. He lost 400 points on his barrier, but gained 50 armored health. He also picked up another charge of Firestrike. The 400 point loss is about 4 seconds (give or take) of total barrier strength. But since most burst-damage caps out at 300 damage (or less); he’s largely unaffected by this charge. Sustained damage and pressure will hurt him on approach… but I didn’t see any major differences in map design. There’s still chokes everywhere you look. Pathways are still largely 6 meters in width and no more than 10 meters, and plenty of natural cover still exists, so there are still possibilities for Reinhardt to duck and cover if his barrier fails. And with less health on his barrier, it likely recharges faster too.
Two Firestrike charges means he has more controlled burst and a little more safety poking or delivering damage. Post Earthshatter, it is possible to fire off two Firestrikes (think of those benefits with Nanoboost or Amp Matrix). With Charge having more control; it may be possible to wall slam a target into a perpendicular wall, or something with a better angle.
Going back to barriers for a moment. There’s also one less target to worry about when it comes to barrier damage; not that Tanks had much trouble with barriers originally. Most Tanks could ignore it, save maybe Orisa and Sigma. But these won’t be the only Tanks since OW2 plans to introduce more and they may be more impacted by barriers, so Reinhardt’s barrier seems like it’s a good place, even with it’s 400 health reduction.
The extra 50 armored health isn’t much, buys about a half-second to a full-second at best. But that’s still an improvement. Overall; there’s seems to be a fairly modest improvement to Reinhardt here. He won’t affected so heavily by CC and he won’t grant much ult-charge gain should he die.
So I still don’t see any problems here. Nanoboost will still be his best friend and two Firestrikes is lethal post-Earthshatter. Plus with fewer Tanks means fewer barriers to block Earthshatter. That seems to be a good positive.
With Sombra’s many damage buffs, Bastion’s buffs, the developers saying they wanted people to die faster, ect. Everything points to a net damage buff. This is included for the tanks, too.
Which she has to hack to get any value from her kit, meaning more often than not she’ll be doing more damage. Plus hacking turns off your skills, meaning you’ll take more damage from her and her team. Plus her ult does mandatory damage now, and turns off your skills, meaning you’ll take more damage.
I know its a second of hack, that’s not the issue.
With increased versatility and damage potential. Its very likely he’ll be damaging people MORE often with this change, and since the devs want that, I can only assume that’s what’ll happen.
Didn’t they say they took her freeze, but is buffing her damage as compensation?
The blizzard developers directly, where aren’t you getting this buffing damage from. See, you guys do this weird thing where you ignore information that the DEVS have said, and then get confused when you here people mention it again.
They say that, but since they want OW2 to be a faster paced game, they’re probably going to nerf the snipers mobility, but keep (or buff) their damage.
There are a lot of people on here lying and covering for Blizzard, and the more the truth about OW2 comes out, the more desperate they’re getting.
Comparatively, the people who’ve figured out what’s happening, and would oppose them, are gone. Why stick around and post and criticize a game where the developers are intentionally trying to drive you way? I’m obstinate enough to keep wagging my finger and calling out the development team’s trash behaviour, but the majority of tank players left long ago.
Blizzard are gaslighting pieces of garbage. They’ll tell players tanks are getting huge buffs when we can see with our own eyes they’ve been brutally destroyed whle the streamer/pro-popular damage main darlings got ridiculously more powerful.
First off Sombra is clearly an outlier and we know this because every non Sombra DPS in that game basically did nothing. They were the 4th or 5th biggest on their impact despite playing multiple heroes so clearly Sombra is an outlier.
Therefore we can assume damage from other heroes is about the same as in OW1(hence why they mentioned that the damage to mitigation ratio got skewed too heavily in favor of mitigation by removing a tank and fights were not ending hence why they needed a global healing nerf.
So basically yes EVERY piece of evidence points to the amount of incoming damage being significantly lower (I didn’t even get into the drastic decrease in amount of ults available). This is basically confirmed as fact by now.
Really? We know that Sombra’s ult now does damage equal to 40% of the current HP. And her normal gun is now doing the same damage as Soldier in OW1. Reaper kills people just as quickly as in OW1. Bastion ult does 300 AoE damage.
Nothing at all gives me impression that damage is in ANY way weaker.
hehehe dps rein go brrrrr
And again all evidence points to Sombra as an outlier hence why the non Sombra DPS had no impact. I am legitimately shocked you are surprised their initial tuning pass on a revert would overshoot the market when it has happened almost every single time.
So again given that Sombra was an outlier whose numbers will almost certainly go down and given that we weee OVERTLY and explicitly told that overall damage went down so much healing was actually dragging on fights too long.
Now you are free to claim that Blizzard is wrong about the damage numbers but to do so is to claim that your watching 1 10 minute game gave you more insight than all the testing that happened off camera and the hundreds of not thousands of documented hours already played we have not seen.
Now given that I can look at how non Sombra fights went and see what they mean tells me that either they are buffing 16+ heroes or nerfing the one outlier.
You need to consider that in a 5v5 situation, the main tank needs to deal with less overall dmg. While looking at the raw numbers Reins shield might be weaker, but relatively speaking to dmg it takes it might end up being better.
No.
Loss of a co-tank to divide fire between means incoming damage is doubled.
That more than offsets the fact one less tank will be attacking you.
No, the enemy off tank can constantly pressure you, your own off tank is limited by cooldowns to cover for you.
No he doesn’t…? If Reinhardt is charging, he doesn’t got to claw anything. Keep up kid.
This is a flat out lie. I see tanks die all the time in masters. There is plenty of clips of pro players and masters + tanks dying instantly when they peek even with Zarya bubbles.
But hey, that brown on your nose must smell good.
how to lose a rein 1v1 in one step…fire strike too much, great I can use my press to lose teamfight ability more (also see how to die against a poke comp in one step) you already have to start the animation behind cover to have any chance of living
Sombra will be hacking but if she gets disrupted by someone who isnt hacke her damage sucks.
Bastion does less damage straight up. Increased versatility yes, but less damage regardless.
And they said they’re buffing mei’s damage but with no freeze she can’t land as good burst combos that lock you into unavoidable damage.
But either way, this doesn’t matter because tanks are getting super buffed and i provided you evidence of that. You just focused on the damage aspect of my argument.
well the ow2 pro play match yestarday showing space hard carried that match so thats a proof that rein is stronger but u have to play it difrently
Not even, get better at Rein
u also know that other enemy tank also contribute alot of damage to your tank right?
dev even said that they have the data that another tank are actually dealing more damage on average compared to 1 dps
lol go start a firestrike in the middle of a lane and tell me how that goes for ya
This is true, the only difference is they are no longer tanks in OW 2, they are something entirely new -a subset of DPS known as “Brawlers”. The community cannot get their heads wrapped around this for some reason.
I’ve done it more times than I can remember