If you play well under 3000, system will help you climb

Competitive Discussion
62

You do not program “feelings” or “epic” directly into the code. I had assumed you understood that.

No I’m not wrong, your not even talking about the same thing. As stated clearly in the beginning of the paragraph which you took my quote from “Play of the game” does not and literally can not take into account your savior achievement.

This is the issue, you believe too much in your own points that it gives you tunnel vision and you act without thinking. You began by saying I was “completely wrong” but it’s proven to be the reverse. You need to seriously consider that, for your own sake.

My god your literally making things up…this is exactly why you need to understand it. All you’ve done is made up your own version of what you “think” I’m talking about. I literally do no not know how I can help you. I suspect that this is a consequence of you trying to win an argument rather than trying to understand what Im actually talking about.

Unfortunately you won’t be able to understand how ironic this is.

I’ve done all I can to explain this to you, I am fine with what I said in our conversation and I’m happy that anyone may read our conversation and see what we’ve both written and that they will be able to see who is right or wrong.

63

The problem is the sheer number of alts, boosters, buddy-stacks, throwers, smurfs and frankly just flat out alts in the game currently which skews the game for proper ranking of an individual.

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64

Its not about different experience tho, there is no difference in games and team mates you and i have on average for example. Its difference in our gameplay and how we see others. System is same for both of us, you see it as your enemy, i see it as something which will help me climb if i play well.

So if one of us would have to change the mindset to see ranking system in same way, who that will be? Why not you? I clearly dont want to change my mindset more to negativity and start blaming system or team mates, it will not help me climb. Fixing my gameplay will help me climb. It already did, i am hard proof of that.

How does it matter how you call it? It makes no difference for me. We have ranks and we can climb, stay in our elo or decline, simple as that.

Every good coach will tell you its waste of time. If you want to educate yourself, watch coaching videos from Iostux or Temporal for example, karq has interesting videos about hero tips also.

But question is if you can emulate what you see into your games. For some people its hard to notice own mistake and you need someone else to tell you what you do wrong. Plenty of people here on forums offer free help, me included.

Dialog is never waste of time, i will not stop to tell others how to climb when i know its working, maybe one day you will change you mind, or others. You would not be the first. There is plenty of people who changed mindset from “rigged MM” to “its me”. But i dont know anyone who would go the other way. Think about that. We are always here to welcome you to our “group” and help you :slight_smile:

You program POTG to present epic and interesting plays.

What if i show you savior POTG?

I have seen savior POTG before so i know you are wrong.

How was it proven you cannot get that?

Its you who keep making claims in this topic without any kind of evidence supporting that.

Yes they will see that you are making stuff up and making claims without evidence and when i suggest how to test your claim to prove you wrong you came up with more claims again with zero evidence for it. Because you very well know that your arguments and opinion would fail vs reality.

Minor obstacle if you are trying to climb and be better at ow.

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65

Just you saying it doesn’t make it true. Simple fact is the sheer volume of alts/smurfs/throwers skews the SR system. So let’s correct what you are saying is a “minor obstacle”; you must overcome all these things in order to climb in a stacked system currently.

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66

And you are saying what then? That its too hard for you? Maybe you dont try hard enough. What do you do for climbing? If i dont count complaining about smurfs, leavers and throwers which are on both sides.

I can tell you that I played over 100 games in bronze and silver on my alt and saw just few smurf. Very few leavers and even less throwers. So i wonder where are they?

And i dont care what time is it, i play even last hours of season when so many people is afraid to queue.

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67

Dude it’s a system with a purpose and it’s me playing better. It’s the Alts you create, the smurfs, the leavers, team average mmr vs role average mmr, the stacks and the bots. Also the grand “queue time” for making any other comparable for team making.

Ultimately it’s about the community and if we feel the other variables out weigh the “me”, then this game will die.

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68

Of course it is, purpose of matchmaker is try to create most balanced games possible and MMR system to help players to reach place where they belong.

Nobody is saying its working flawlessly.

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69

Programming/Mathematics is logical…epic is relative opinion… stop and think…

You mean 6 resurrections? Even if it were 1 or infinite resurrections what exactly would you prove? The evidence would not be sufficient to prove anything regarding the universal value calculation. Think about it carefully, what are you trying to prove and what holds it to be true irrefutably in all scenarios.

Ahhh I see. You must be talking about mass rez. Thats an old illusion, POTG “does not take into account saving people”, but it did (in the past) take into account mass rez. That’s just coding in a specific trigger, in really basic pseudo code it something like

If (massrezactivated == true) {
Value += Rezcount × 100;
massrezactivated = false;
}

However POTG where reinhardt blocks the team from dva bomb, Baptiste immortality shield saves team. Brig ONLY ult canceling a Reaper Death Blossom that would otherwise have resulted in heavy casualties, Lucio sound barrier team save. These happen many times and never get play (unless you also happen to get a bunch of kills or damage). Because POTG does not truly “take into account saving people” at best it kept an eye out for mass rez in the past.

I can see why you were so eager to show me this. It would have been enough to detract from the point, using a special case which no longer exists, might have garnered a faux win

Again I’m happy THEY will be able to see who is right and wrong.

Amazing how you know exactly what they will do before they do things.

70

Actualy no, i was not.

And as before you are wrong again. I didnt want to show you res. It was POTG on dps actualy. But i can find others on support even without res or kills. I am still waiting for evidence of your another claim. How was it proved that you cant get POTG without kills and dmg. Where is the evidence?

Same

71

You were going to show me Savior Achievement on DPS for POTG? In order to disprove POTG does not take into account saving lives? Yes I would like to see that replay.

Interesting question. Just look at a POTG and then look at the lack of… “POTG where reinhardt blocks the team from dva bomb, Baptiste immortality shield saves team. Brig ONLY ult canceling a Reaper Death Blossom that would otherwise have resulted in heavy casualties, Lucio sound barrier team save. These happen many times and never get play (unless you also happen to get a bunch of kills or damage).”

Btw it’s interesting looking at the original argument I made and the direction/destination this lead as a result of answering your questions. Does it look like you were concerned with finding the truth or obfuscation to you?

72

So it wasnt, thanks for clarification. Just because you didnt see something yet, it doesnt mean it doesnt exists lol.

I always want to find truth but you showed here that its not problem for you to trust something without evidence. Or make up things like that sr compensation for sombra and other heroes, which you have also do not evidence for.

73

So desperate for some kind of victory that you’ve associated with the same logic that can be used in defense of: the lochness monster, the savior replay you suddenly aren’t so eager to show me, crab people, and sentient toenails.

The evidence exists. Your comprehension of it, does not.

74

Its Lifesaver, i wasnt sure about the name, idk if there is “Savior” type also, probably not.

So now what? do you finaly admit that you were wrong? Life saving is obviously taking into consideration as you can see.

I have more POTG from support, just mostly healing done, but I have over 2000 recorded games on my youtube accounts so i really dont want to waste more time on you to find it to prove you wrong again, this is enough.

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75

Ok that seems like widow sniped Reinhardt who had someone pinned I’m guessing. Your right, it was saving someones life I cannot deny that.

Although I admit to that, I’m going to trace back exactly what the point and meaning in saying that it doesn’t account for saving players.

The original argument was that the AI is not capable of recognizing situational value, the example given was Sombra hack. That replay was a situation that can be recognized if the programmer specifically instructs the AI to check whether rein was currently pinning someone which is a simple true or false statement. Specific events like these are simple to check for via true/false questions. However when it comes to checking the bigger picture how much value does that play have. The POTG rates it as a big deal because a condition was met (killed rein while he was pinning a teammate ) similar to killing someone during an ult to which either value multiplier or bonus will be added to the overall rating which. The same type of thing can be coded for Sombra hack. These unique events can easily be coded for.

However take a similar situation, a Reinhardt in the middle of killing your teammate via primary fire. Suppose Rein was about to deliver the 3rd finishing blow to your squishy but you sniped him, during the same game a Lone Reddit Lucio uses beat on himself in an attempt to save himself from dying after engaging multiple opponents gets booped off the map during his retreat and dies anyway. In this case what’s rated as the higher value play will be booping Lucio off the map. Because the way it detects value is through programming predefined event triggers but the AI doesn’t in a sense “understand” these events, it doesnt recognize what life saving actually is which is why you won’t account for other ways you could have also been a life saver that isn’t linked to abilities with predetermined conclusions. This is what was referring to, but your right and perhaps it was a poor choice of words on my part.

Actually the perfect example of the limits of how well the AI understands the game would be by looking at the AI bots themselves. The bots are the current level of understanding the game has because that is literally how ai bot skill is determined, the better the bot the better it is identifying the value of each of its choices. All the value the game can account on Sombra is contained within the Sombra bot. Thus any value that Sombra Bot is incapable of calculating or employing is beyond what the game can recognize and therefore will not credit you for this. So if
for the best way to manipulate pbsr for Sombra would be to essentially play as close to the same logic Sombra Bot operates at max difficulty without compromising the game.

The answer is right there, the reason Max Difficulty Sombra Bot cannot compete with a GM Sombra Player is Precisely because of the Value Sombra Bot is unaware of. If Sombra Bot was placed in competitive mode games, her rank after 100 games would be a good indicator of the extent which the Game can recognize and account for her value.

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76

especially when out of 10 games you get 4 times 2cp maps XD
and when u win 24 and lose 25 :slight_smile: not rigged at all

77

I actually tried to make this exact point once and Reciepts or whatever basically told me to eat excrement and jump off of a high structure with no parachute.

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78

Lol…. this dude actually put his intro to programming homework on the forums :joy::joy:

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79

Its pseudo code, pretty commonly used among programmers to demonstrate basic proof of concepts or general ways things work without necessarily requiring one to know programming to understand

80

We don’t know that this is the case. We hope it would be ( :smiley:), but we don’t know. Also likely that there could be a number of objectives the matchmaker’s been tasked with, not all of which are done for the benefit of the players.

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81

Why would you need “massrezactivated = false”?

if the conditional statement is true, it’s a given that massrezactivated would be false.