I don’t think this is generally what people mean when they say “forced 50/50.” I think they mean that they’re playing well enough to win several in a row, and then the matchmaker adjusts/overcorrects for the streak and suddenly they’re facing much stronger teams or their own teams are substantially worse. And after they lose about as many as they’d recently won, the matchmaker adjusts again, and things go back to feeling fairer or more similar to how they did before the streak.
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Yea sorry, caught this topic late.
This is pure speculation, how can you prove this? What’s your sample size? What region did you play in? How many people did / do you play with? What role and chars did you use? How much do you play per day? Do you do aim trainer? Do you consider your self average…?
I mean… even the Myst says its a minor influence. Just had a game where I went 26/3, first round 16/0, second round 8/3. Guess how much my SR went up? - a whopping 20 points.
I get it what your saying, and yes there are time slices of stats to compare, but what hurts stats? Averages, and this game averages alot. Also your stats ARE influenced by others. If everyone does good and ENABLES you, you do better… its really that simple.
All I know nothing is as easy as black and white. If you refuse to look at the patents how can I tell your open minded? Because the patents themselves use skill as 1 variable with a weight. The other variables are ping, queue time, and a big one… “game enjoyment”. Which all has been backed up with that other COD video someone posted. Then lets not forget the stacks, and now the ticket system. And dont get me wrong, it IS possible, but its a grind. Just playing good is not enough to scorch through the ranks.
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yes and no.
If you continually lose more than you win, despite you doing well… you will still fall. Maybe unlucky, but there comes a point where you can be doing great… and not win a lot of games.
I did but had a mouse hardware failure and my current mouse doesn’t have a button for quick melee.
yes but forced 50/50 came from something jeff kap said sometime ago (i think it was jeff kap atleast)
where the MM looks to make a match as close to a 50/50 chance as possible. everyone else is just paroting this out of context.
and to be clear to anyone who thinks otherwise. the term “forced 50/50” doesnt even sort of mean forced to lose. it means everyone is set to be the same skill level (or atleast mirrored as best as the system can for population), meaning if you belong higher you will impact it and win, and if you belong lower you’ll do the same but you will lose.
ironically forced 50/50 makes it easier to climb, not harder. but it does make it harder to get lucky and go on winstreaks.
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System may help when you have a good match but this is negated by smurfs/throwers/leavers.
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If I had a penny for every clown on the forums crying about Match Maker, smurfs, throwers, and leavers, I’d have Jet on 24 hr standby… 
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Can you show me replay code how you carried? Its your claim that you did, it doesnt mean you really did.
Prove what exactly? I have data from all games played and also i can support it with evidence as i record all my games. Its reality, not speculation.
Hundreds games
Mostly US and EU.
Solo most of the time, i used some LFG, sometimes i group up with players i meet in games to continue together. Oh and i played in duo with bronze player some games.
Support, mostly mercy. Sometimes zen and few times brig.
Sometimes i dont play at all, usualy few games when i am in good mood for OW, like 3-10.
Never used one, if i practice aim, its in FFA deathmatch.
I have data from my alt/smurf depends how people see it. Based on my achieved ranks most people would see me above average. I am gamer whole life and very competitive person, almost 37, also very curious one so i constantly try to seek knowledge and learn more about ow and how play heroes or coach people.
You need above average performance most of your games, then mmr will help you.
Why should i care about some kind of patent? Even if patent is used, it doesnt mean anything to me as i am climbing under that patent, i did on all roles in past, several times. Ok i trust you with the patent, ok now what? It changes nothing, i still climb/ed under it.
Of course it is, what the hell isnt in life if you want to be better than others?
Do you think that olympic winner casualy trained 3 hours per week to get Medal?
Or blacksmith spend 5 hours to train to be master blacksmith? Come on…
Depends on what you consider good. If good is playing consistently better than others in your elo, yes its definitely enough.
Buy a new one man 
we can make you climb again.
Not true as system helps me exactly in these games as i lose less than 23 SR usualy because i play well in other games.
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It’s really not a huge if, It’s a very likely if. See the scenario you describe is one way to calculate SR for Sombra. Its only one form of gaining value and that covers a very small window of potential value from hack and Even then it’s incomplete. You do not need to have incoming damage for your hack to be effective You could simply hack a Reinhardt which exposes his team which gets his team killed. However neither can you say for certain that because Reinhard dropped to shield that those players got killed those players could have gotten killed regardless of Reinhard dropping a shield. For the ones that you did hack and incoming damage was a factor, what if a lucio was already going to take a lot of damage and you hacked them anyway? Using your formula this would have been rated as high value but in reality this hack would have been a poor decision and low value. There’s also different value targets at different points of the game sometimes it’s more important for you to hack the tank sometimes it’s more important for you to hack DPS or supports. It’s an ever fluctuating game with many factors to consider and these factors cannot be described easily with numbers.
Mathematics is often considered a language a technical language but programming the AI that knows mathematics and programming an AI that knows language is vastly different. The reason it’s so hard to develop AI for human language is that human language isn’t so cut and dry as mathematics is. Same difference with Sombra and somebody like Bastion.
To put into perspective there’s an app you can download called Replika. It is a basic chatbot It is decent but it is not perfect and yet it took a team of 40 people to develop. Because of the various abstractions and possibilities and context to consider. This is going to be similar with Sombra there’s the context of the fight.
Highly unlikely that They would dedicate so much resources just to calculate MMR Especially because they are a business and they can get away with it.
On the off chance that they did dedicate this mass amount of resources just to program this AI to calculate MMR even then It would be prone to mistakes. You would need to develop an AI that has the intelligence and understanding rivaling that of a human.
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Having one game a day where you go 53/3 isn’t enough, you need more like 3 in a row before PBSR starts favoring you. And you have to keep consistently performing at an MMR higher than the average of the other players to keep getting PBSR
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So are you telling me that hacked rein i front of his team will magicaly vanish and wont take damage?
Also hacks during ults or abilities are most likely taken into consideraction.
System cant calculate everything sure but pbsr gains show me its capable of calculation most of what is happening.
He likely will take damage though he could get Zarya bubbled. But let’s account for the scenario which he does take damage, does the value derived from this damage formula scale depending on how much damage he takes or does it just give a default standard amount of value if he just takes any damage at all? If the formula, accounts for the amount of damage then That would also depend on your teammates’ ability or willingness to damage that Reinhardt and that would affect your value, If it is solely dependent on the damage you inflict It may not always be wise to stick around and inflict damage on Reinhardt in which case a tactical escape might mean low value. Or suppose that Reinhardt was already very low health and you whittle down the remaining health, He would not have taken much damage. If you only give a standard amount of value simply for taking damage then you open up the possibility of one 1hp damage equaling the same value as 500 HP damage dealt. That’s just a Reinhardt alone, now you got to consider whether that Reinhardt was actually worth hacking, was he even protecting his teammates or was he alone somewhere and not as important of a target. Too many factors to consider for one simple hack. Just because the value is super easy for us to determine as a person, doesn’t mean that it’s super easy to code.
Yes things like whether they were hacked during an ability at or old is easy to code and recognize. While hacking an ability or an ult has high potential, potential is all it guarantees. Hacking D.va’s ability to fly can potentially have very little value, hacking dva’s ability mid flight in a location which would cause her to fall to her death would have much higher value. The fact is the ability was hacked only guaranteed the potential, the situation is what guarantees the value and this is only a very simple example. Most situations you’d have to calculate would be far more complex.
This is true heroes like Bastion most of his value is easily calculated, and a lot the value can be calculated Since the majority of the game is about killing people and not getting killed. Though this is why I said for some characters A lot of their value won’t be accurately calculated.
Though part of the reason that it’s unlikely not have AI that can calculate truly calculate all forms of value is because like I said, they can get away with it. Think about the medal / card system in the game. Medals are not a guaranteed way to know if you are doing good, however they are a “good enough indicator” of your overall performance. POTG is also considered “good enough” and a lot of impactful plays do make it on there. However these systems have faults and can sometimes be very inaccurate and you only need to look at the POTG to see the extent of Blizzards ability and limits to calculate value. Just because junk rat, dva and Mcree tend to dominate POTG does not mean that heros like mercy, Sombra, Zarya are not making good plays worthy of POTG. What we have in place of an accurate system is likely pseudo system. Off the top of my head I simply by making the value of damage dealt and elims by Sombra a lot higher than normal You can have some form of measuring value that can give a “good enough illusion” and most players likely will not notice that it’s not actually calculating the other value that it’s missing. This is why most likely you do not see a problem with it, although this isn’t an actual solution or even a good thing necessarily
In any case my argument was that not all value can be accurately calculated and that some characters won’t have all their value accounted for. That is the only point I was making, whether the current system is good enough for you or not is your own thing/opinion but it does not invalidate my point.
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Then you hacked target which was killed, valuable.
Sure but why woult they not shoot him, rein without shield is free ult charge. Thats why hacking targets where your team can kill them is important. Not to mention that you will be dealing dmg also.
It doesnt really matter what he was doing, important is that he took damage and fed your team with ult charge.
I dont understand why it should be hard, just because you cant do it, doesnt mean its hard. I cant also but i dont see a reason why it should, you can get potg for savior so game clearly track a lot more than just raw damage. It knows you stopped ults or saved team mates and many other things not even shown in stats.
No its true for all heroes. Only difference in some heroes vs pbsr is that some heroes can do more than others because of their design. So it might feel unfair in same cases.
Sure but you have to realize that potg is there to show something epic. Its not there to show best player in game doing right thing.
But you have no evidence supporting that actualy, show me hero who cant get higher pbsr gains because its hard to calculate value on that hero and i will prove you wrong.
I challenge you. Any hero any role(i would prefer if you give me more options tho) . Some hero picks will take time tho as i am not good at all heroes.
Can you actualy make a list of heroes who do you think suffer with game not being able to properly calculate their value?
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Again It’s never that simple. In game development You have to develop an environment which is self-sustaining and accounts for all variables in this case, hacking a target which was killed He’s not a guarantee of value, The target could have been easily killed without your hack and you hacking him in turn would have been a waste of a hack, you’d have to also justify why you hacked a low health Target which could potentially be killed in other ways. It can or it cannot be justified. I’m begining to think you don’t entirely understand how situation based value works.
Yes you make logical sense here but that’s not how programming works. In programming we must create a self-sustaining environment that must take into account all possibilities. And also just because you think logically does not mean that every player will think logically either, and in this scenario you’ll be amount of logic that is demonstrated during the situation will weight in on your value and that is to volatile and uncertain a variable to use or have interfere with measurements when striving for accuracy.
I can’t believe you just said this. Both things matter and one does not matter more over the other or the existence of one doesn’t negate the existence of the other. Many things can matter and the more of these many things that happen the more value it has.
Precisely you don’t understand I really doubt that you’ve ever done game programming based on the things you’ve been saying/Assuming. I never said I can’t do it, It’s the fact that I can do it that I know it would be so difficult to do. It would take too much time and too much resources
Play of the game As I’ve already mentioned before is an obvious formulated combination of eliminations within a set time, damage and whether you killed somebody who’s doing an ult. It does not take into account saving people, It’s obvious just by looking it.
I’ve seen torb turret get POTG, not very epic.
The problem is that you don’t understand the depth of what calculating situational value actually requires. The proof lies in the understanding of it and what it would entail to do such a thing.
The matter which you propose that we prove this is also invalid, because what are you going to compare those results to? Simply proving that a player can get SR boosts would not prove whether stuff like situational value was measured, because like I said there can be a pseudo measurement system like simply scaling up the value of damage done by Sombra to make up for the fact that she does very little and cover for the fact that it won’t be measuring the value of her hacks All that great by overcompensating on the damage part.
I don’t mean to be offensive but I think you’re out of your depth in this regard. The arguments you make are logical only from a human perspective, but in game design the things you’ve proposed would be highly irresponsible.
It clearly was epic or hilarious as you remember it and mention it.
And now you are completely wrong. I myself had several times savior achievement which had more value than someone else doing dmg/kills.
Proof lies in the bpsr, not in words and opinions. You can claim that system has trouble to calculate certain things milions times but that doesnt make it true, all heroes have pbsr bonus if they overperform so clearly system can calculate it just fine.
I dont need to understand complexity of calculation. I see results of it on my own eyes.
I dont get it lol. So why do you talk about it whole time how certain actions in game cannot be properly measured by system if it actualy cannot be proven or seen in pbsr bonus. Now you claim that there is some kind compensation for certain heroes? Another claim without any kind of evidence.
If there is something like performance compensation system in game for certain heroes why did you bring that issue in the fist place? Why do we talk about it then? If you play sombra you do your hacking and system will give you more sr just because you are sombra right? So you and other special heroes dont need really any kind of complex calculations to measure your performance. Sorry but thats nonsense.
It seems that you are just starting to make up new things and claims because you are afraid that i would prove you wrong.
I am actualy sad, i was hoping for interesting challenge. Instead i get excuse how it cannot be proven, come on dude.
I’ve climbed to 3.1k on role q but legitimately hard stuck plat in open q lol
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No question about it. The problem is the “others”.
If you play well, you will outclimb others. But yeah this is team game, you will play with others obviously? What else do you expect in team game?
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At this point… we got a group who can climb at will and folks who get hard stuck…
I’m tired of trying to convince people that have different experiences than I, and believe something I do not.
this is not a progression system but a classification system. I’ll continue to do my aim trainer and watch my game leap videos and move between 1500-1900. Ultimately if more people are hard stuck and leave the game - OW will have to pivot, if not I’ll still play and have fun.
At the end both groups try to convince the other but it’s out of love for the game. We want to make it better and that’s cool but we’re all wasting time trying to convince each other on this forum.
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