There would be plenty of counterplay to a Hanzo standing there holding his bow at range for pretty much everyone to stop it, at 20m a D.va can just basically always D.M him, you can almost always deflect or use any cooldown to escape or engage on him.
Standing up close is risky, therefore it should be rewarding, as long as the fall-off is short enough, at 20m with 140 damage max it should be fine but should be easy enough to find the right number with some testing.
This is here exactly what I mean. You refuse to improve, so you blame the hero design.
I still dodge these on a daily basis. Skill difference, I guess?
Exactly, youâre selfish. You would choose to sacrifice otherâs fun for less occasional annoyance, instead of just improving and having fun inspite of it. What youâre espousing is that Hanzo players should be the only ones not having fun.
Itâs akin to burning down your neighborâs house because it casts a shadow on your lawn in the afternoon.
Itâs crazy how you are making up an argument and trying to fit a square block into a triangle hole.
What youâre saying has zero correlation to whatâs going on.
Iâm willing to bet Iâm of higher rank and for a much much longer time.
But thatâs not the point because this convo has nothing regarding skill.
No itâs more like setting the neighborâs house on fire after theyâve just committed a terrorist attack on the neighborhood.
Sacrifice the fun of on unhealthy hero?
Or sacrifice the fun of the multiple plenty of people that have to go against said unhealthy hero?
Mmmmmmm idk.
With takes like yours, I highly doubt it.
Itâs only unhealthy, because youâve chosen to believe itâs unhealthy. But whatever, we agree to disagree.
Itâs unhealthy, because one shots are unfun to play against! Especially when they come at no risk to the user. Hope this helps.
Please quote where I said hanzo is as strong as mecree?
I did say storm arrow can rival mecrees TTK, but that isnt me saying Hazo rivals mecree
I know you didnât say he is as strong as Cass.
This here is precisely what I was addressing. I used this as an illustration in the differences in hero power.
You said and I quote
And Im not saying they are equal, I never was.
I said that Hanzo TTK and shots to kill is similar to most heroes in the game.
Key word here is most, yes there are people with shorter TTK like mecree, but most heroes dont have that short of TTK.
I was never making the claim hanzo is as good as mecree.
I said storm arrow TTK rivals mecrees, but once again that doesnt mean hanzo is as good as mecree.
It is a fact that storm arrows TTK rivals mecrees TTK, that is just how the numbers work,
Im not making a claim about powerlevel
people are still asking for hanzo nerfs? yall cant be serious lol
I have an idea! How about remove arrows altogether!
Hanzo just runs around whacks people with his bow, alternate fire is he tries to strangle u with the bowstring!
How bout it boyos!?
If youd take time to read the topic, i think youd realise thats asking for a lot of compesation in return, hopefully resulting in a net buff.
One shots are only unhealthy when youâre being a lemming with easy to predict movement.
Skill issue.
Well, it is quite a bit nuanced. Below are numbers done by Arrge for the Developer AMA 2 months ago.
** Assuming full charging the arrows (to be able to hit targets past melee range):
3 bodyshots = ~2.5 seconds TTK (~3.25 seconds if bow is not preloaded)
Or best case scenario:
1 headshot + 1 bodyshot = ~1.25 seconds TTK (~2 seconds if bow is not preloaded) **
Not taking into account travel time, because that varies with range.
** Compared to for example Cassidy:
4 bodyshots = 1.5 seconds TTK
Or best case scenario:
2 headshots = ~0.5 seconds TTK **
The comparison here is to illustrate how significant fire rate is in TTK. It doesnât have to be Cass, but they are the numbers I had most readily available.
These numbers of course assume 100% accuracy (which is improbable, considering itâs a projectile), as well as maximum fire rate. Once Hanzo hits a headshot, the target is free to either reposition, employ movement to make it near impossible to hit the 2nd shot, or get healed.
For every shot Hanzo misses, about 1 second is added to the potential TTK (and nobody is going to be sticking around for a 3rd shot from Hanzo).
In comparison, for every shot Cass misses, only 0.25 seconds is added to the potential TTK, therefore his misses matter less. Itâs a question of efficiency. Thatâs the reason why slower firing DPS tend to have higher damage to compensate and vice versa. Hanzo has the added element of being a projectile hero, so the gap further widens, because consistency matters.
Itâs because of these factors that Hanzo canât secure kills effectively without Storm Arrow, which is on too long a cooldown to be a viable combo.
Your rework is sillyâŚ
The concept in general is not a bad idea, however your suggestions are just bad.
I got years on the hero. I have always argued that Hanzo is at his strongest but most vulnerable close range and weakest but least vulnerable long range. Medium range is the happy compromise.
The problem with long-range is predicting enemy movement becomes nearly impossible (unless you are facing a Widow that just stands still) which makes a lot of his shots feel more luck than skill.
Short/medium range is the sweet spot. You can actually predict enemy movement and the hits you land feel like skill.
The problem with your suggestion is that you lean into this idea without giving Hanzo any tools to actually operate at close/medium range.
Its almost as if you are confirming what I said earlier
This is my claim that most heroes need 2-3 shots to kill or a 1-3 seconds to kill.
Lets look at some heroes
Junk - 2 body shots - ~1.2 secinds
Mei - 3 body shots - ~2.4 seconds
mei - 1 head 1 body - ~1.6 seconds
Sym - 3 body - ~3.1 seconds
Ashe - 7 body shots - ~1.9 seconds
Ashe - 4 headshots - ~1.1 seconds
Ash ADS - 4 body sots - ~2.6 seconds
ash ADS - 2 headshots - ~1.3 seconds
Soilder - body shots - ~1.46 seconds
Soilder - headshots - ~0.73 seconds
Bastion - body shots - 2 seconds
bastion - headshots - 1 second
(this was rough quick math so there are probably errors)
I will say this for like the 4th time now.
Hanzo TTK and Shots to kill is similar to most heroes
Hanzo sits ~1-3 seconds to kill, and most heroes sit ~1-3 seconds to kill.
That is my claim, that is whay im saying.
If we really want to get technical and start factoring in aim then you also need to factor in reload, and reload makes some heroes TTK go way up, and hanzo does not have to deal with that.
Is not the ability to one shot 280 HP heroes or less and 180 hp or less (with Storm Arrows) and a ton of damage in general up close not a tool to operate at close - medium range?
Not to mention a better uptime on his wallhacks to play around corners.
And also the fact that even though he would have fall-off, with the increased damage, his damage would still amount to something useful from med-long range.
People complain enough about him being lethal in close range.
Leave him be, or just give him 250 damage.
1.25 - 3.25 seconds to kill. That is a significant difference compared to the heroes you mentioned who are far more consistent (and have better TTKs) than he is and will be much more often able to hit that 100% accuracy in an engagement.
âPeopleâ complain about anything Hanzo is able to do, cant go pleasing this âpeopleâ you speak of, he either one shots only up close or on most ranges, or they give up on the character design, you pick wich one is less frustating.
Itâs frustrating to land a hell of a shot on someone and get no reward. Itâs frustrating to flick a blading Genji in the head for nothing but my death. Itâs frustrating to try and counter anyone and be nearly unable to because his lethality is neutered.
They chose to please non Hanzo players and give Hanzo players the finger.
So donât try the frustrating angle.