I think Hanzo needs fall-off on his arrows

General Discussion
1

But also upping their damage back to 125-140 or maybe even increasing the headshot multiplier instead, giving him an identity as a close-mid poke and assassin character but basically getting rid of the cross-map random spam sniping.
(Also making sense with real life arrows dramatically losing speed over distances, though realism doesnt matter all that much or at all in this discussion, just an fun fact)

I was thinking something like :

Storm Bow

  • Now has a damage falloff min-max range of 20-40 meters at a 50% scale, includes Storm Arrows/Recon, (worse off than Cassidy`s mind you).

  • Maximum damage per arrow increased to 140 from 120

  • Or Critical damage modifier increased to 2.5x from 2x, (increasing his maximum headshot damage to 300 from 240 and rewarding more of a riskier playstyle)

Edit: I’ve come to realise that only increasing his primary fire damage while nerfing all of his other types of damage is a pretty big net nerf so to go with the mid-close range fall-off change he would need more compesation:

Storm Arrows

  • Damage per arrow increased to 90 from 75

Or instead:

  • Headshot damage multiplier increased to 2.5x from 2x across all of his arrows, while reverting his primary maximum damage to 120.

Sonic Arrow

  • Cooldown decreased to 10 from 12 seconds.

Dragon Strike

  • The initial arrow Now deals an extra 110 damage (from 140 to 250) if it contacts an enemy.
3 Likes
2

Nah, keep him distinct. It’s better if they reduce the charge time on his arrows so they’re both more usable and more frequent, as well as cut 25 hp from the 250’s with good mobility (Pharah is down, only like half the 250’s to go).

3

Id argue he would still be distinct enough from the hitscans and what not, he will never compete with Widow anyways on her maps, unless hes ridiculously broken, in my opinion this is the best middle ground.

And even if they go about nerfing every other mobile dps to 225 HP, at best he goes back to being still just discount Widow while also nerfing characters that might not need to be nerfed.

4

I really hate that arrows don’t have damage fall off while Widowmaker (that actual sniper assassin) loses headshots. Like whenever I got sniped by a Widowmaker, it always impressed me and pushed me to learn how to position myself better. When a Hanzo one shots me, im just bored and there’s not much to learn from and low-key kind of infuriates me. The speed at which you can get headshots on multiple characters is also crazy (if you or your Hanzo is good enough and has really good aim)

1 Like
5

Widow’s one shot is the most uninteractive BS in the entire game

It’s damn hitscan, stupidly long range, so far outside the effective range of 90% of dps

iTs just idiotic that it still exists when map design is so open and sightlines are this long with only 1 tank

Hanzo cannot even one shot you. You peek a corner and get domed by Hanzo you will live with 10-110 hp depending on what dps or support you’re playing. Only Pharah Tracer and Widow get one shot by Hanzo and frankly they deserve it

8 Likes
6

Well, I tried in that regard.

Just feels like they “fixed” that with Sombra, Kiriko, and Illiari.

Kinda like the same way they “fixed” Dive with launch Brig.

Devil’s advocate

Widow, AntiNade, and Pharah almost give justification for certain other heroes to exist.

This might be why the devs are so reluctant on removing these heavily “distorting” capabilities.

7

idk getting consistent headshots with widow needs more skill to aim then whatever Hanzo does. But I do agree about the one tank situation bc it used to be a lot more manageable and not as bad to play against. The overwatch 1 maps are good for widow where (imo) it’s balanced to a degree with limited positions and sightlines. Overall I think the design of Widowmaker isnt flawed and is executed well, it’s just the new design philosophies that fail to challenge how widow works

1 Like
8

1 shots should not be linked to primary fire alone, (and yes I think widow should get reworked to follow this rule as well)

When 1 shots are on primary fire, you can just “spam” them, there is no real downside, if you miss you can fire again in ~1 second.

Good 1 shots IMO, have larger downtime and/or be telegraphed.

For example, take reins charge, it has a longish downtime thanks to its cooldown, and its a tellegraphed attack giving people time to react to it.

Or Dva bomb, as its a ult its not spamable and has large downtime, and its also tellegraphed giving people to react.

When 1 shots have very little downtime, like old hanzo and current widow, then can be fired off much more quickly, and since they also have little to no telegraphed, it grants people no reaction time.

Also these hanzo changes showed that you do not need 1 shots to be viable. This is a team based game, meaning that other people are also dealing damage, making it so they can lower someones health before hanzo shoots or clean up after hanzo shoots.

Hanzo does not live in a vacume, so you cant ignore other people also dealing damage.

Its why sobjorn was so good early on, droping people to 5 hp was really good, as alot of times people already were missing that 5 or you team could easily deal 5 more to finish them off.

2 Likes
9

I think hanzo is in great shape. There are heroes you don’t need to see all the time.

10

Hanzos issue is mostly the lucklog oneshots
The game as a whole honestly shouldn’t have headshots. It makes it too easy for luck to swing things with such small team sizes, or you have situations where you are balancing heroes around the notion that something the average player cannot hit reliably is a weakness that balances them.

They should follow TF2’s example but finish the job and not even let snipers do headshots.

1 Like
11

not being able to headshot is such a crap, unfinished feeling mechanic.

can’t be bothered to play ana, venture, space ranger, most tanks because of their inability to headshot

12

I prefer to just spam arrows at the tank. no need for one shots, just spam down mid on rectangle men.

would be fancy to get some armor Penetration arrows. :smiling_imp:

13

Are you insane? Hanzo only doing max damage within 20 meters is absolutely terrible, even if he does 140 per arrow. 20 meters would put him in range of Hog’s Hook, Brig’s whip, Sigma’s primary, Doom’s Punch, Rein’s Shatter, and every hitscan’s fall-off range too.

And even if he IS up close, he would still be unable to one-shot Reaper, Mei, Torb, Bastion, Venture (with the passive) and Rallied Brig with a Headshot. If you do give him fall-off, 20 meters is WAY too much. It has to be at least double that

2 Likes
14

Oh yeah, get rid of storm arrow.

Snipers shouldn’t have crazy burst, and its just a plain boring ability too. ‘Shoot some arrows faster’. I’ll never not be upset the replaced an actual interesting ability with it.

Snipers need more abilities that help them hit the enemy easier, help focus the role and make sure everyone can access that long-ranged accurate shooting, and keep skillies in check by not just tossing more nonsense their way that they can use to stomp all over every match.

15

Yeah, i’ve also came to realise that nerfing his fall-off to such degree, when it nerfs his Storm Arrows and ability to use Recon effectively while only upping his primary damage is definetly not enough compesation, it could be a less punishing fall-off as you said or more compesation on his other abilities so that a close-mid range identity gets pushed harder.

Probbably something like:

Storm Arrows

  • Damage per arrow increased to 90 from 75

Or instead:

  • Headshot damage multiplier increased to 2.5x from 2x across all of his arrows, while reverting his primary maximum damage to 120.

Sonic Arrow

  • Cooldown decreased to 10 from 12 seconds.

Dragon Strike

  • The initial arrow Now deals an extra 110 damage (from 140 to 250) if it contacts an enemy.

The problem is that Hanzo and Widowmaker kits are solely design to accomodate the fact they could* (Hanzo at least) one shot from a significant range away, specially if you were unaware of their location, now Hanzo without one shots is more of a significantly worse mid-range poking character, since its very easy to not get hit a second time when you are made aware of them, the same would happen to Widow if she couldnt one shot.

16

No, hes a projectile hero and therefore makes no sense to have falloff damage. Also come on bro, hanzo is already struggling as it is and it’s not like people are constantly getting mapped by him. With the removal of the one shot it’s literally impossible now to even get kills at range.

17

Not exactly true, there are some projectiles with fall-off, there is no real reason outside of projectiles being usuallly harder to hit at longer ranges (Hanzo’s being among the easier ones) for them not to have fall-off if enough compesation is given to their kits, (see Orisa for example) if Hanzo could one shot 275 hp up close while also one shotting Tracer and tank bursting incredibly effectively up-close i think he could be compesated enough.

18

Idk, I feel people would lose their mind if hanzo could one shot again. I feel all he currently needs is faster projectiles and a faster fire rate.

19

I for one think getting one shot by a character that is pretty much right next to you, has to take a good second to wind up, giving you all of the time in the world to do something about it is alot better than getting one shot randomly across the map.

20

Bro the amount of times a hanzo could one shot people across the map was astronomically low. People are hard coping if they feel hanzo was cheap at ranges considering those types of kills happened once every 6-7 games on a good day. Widow is miles more consistent than hanzo and even has better escape options while being a hitscan hero. Yet people swear hanzo was the problem when he had the one shot. If people cant handle an angry japanese man killing them across the map once in a blue moon, what makes you think they will accept a more consistent hanzo at close range?