So give him lethality back, i think for one that if they dont want to go back to 125 damage (wich mind you might still not make him good) i think abandoning his random spam design altogether for a more concise close-med range character would be more interesting and thats coming from someone that has him on top 3 played since the very first open beta.
Thoes arnt the numbers you said, Ill quote your numbers
Why are you suddenly adding a extra .5 seconds to the minimum? Its .7 draw + .5 revocery + .7 draw again, for 1.9 or ~2 seconds that you mentioned here.
why are you sudeenly adding that extra time on?
Also Ill just quote myself again since you missed this
Some heroes like Ash who have long reload times will see a massive increase in potentiall TTK.
The range for TTK increases vastly when you start factoring in stuff like missing and reloading.
We also are ignoreing abilites and alt fires as well.
But once again, my orginal claim was that most heroes take 1-3 shots to kill or 1-3 seconds, and hanzo falls right into that range that I gave.
No lol, it is not! Otherwise every Hanzo player pre season 9 would have operated soley at this range.
Like I stated before at the close/medium range as you are suggesting, Hanzo is a massive threat but also at his most vulnerable.
Hanzo does not have a strong enough disengage or healthpool to operate soley at this range and would get destroyed by any dive.
Actually your suggestions are still worse as pre-nerf Hanzo could 1-shot other close-range heroes like Mei and Reaper. Your suggestion would still make this impossible.
If you need more examples, literally look at any other hero that operates at close/medium range. They either have super strong engage/disengage capability or super strong survival skills. Hanzo has neither.
That was never his design, outside of bad Hanzos, the same concept with Junk players.
I have 1000 hours on Hanzo across multiple accounts. Good Hanzo players do not want him over buffed, or over tuned, we just want our leathality back.
Hell nerf SA to 3 arrows and give 280 damage back.
Hanzo is never meant to be close range any way. SA is a dumb replacement for an ability that can no longer one shot any tank. Scatter was less broken than SA is, and just turned Hanzo into a SA spam bot.
My bad, I just glanced at it and punched it in. However, my point still stands.
No, one shots are unhealthy when they come from a no risk maneuver and itās literally their primary fire so they can essentially just spam a one shot all game.
Unfortunately when you play against good players, just āgood movementā isnāt good enough to stop them from aiming like the good player they are and taking your head top off.
Back then, everyone had alot less HP and significant lower TTK, if you consider the fact that now he would still mantain his old TTK with signifcantly more HP, he would in fact be ALOT stronger up close than before season 9 btw, its the exact reason they nerfed his damage to 240 if you forget, since they wanted to increase his TTK in comparison to before, his just increases far too much tho.
Its not as much as Junkrat but unfortunately considering the random unpredictable nature of shooting arrows from a long range, it will always be part of his design if not heavily nerfed with fall-off.
I do think he was always a closer-medium range sniper in comparison to Widow or maybe even other hitscans, thats kinda the whole point of him having the leap and SA, plus a bow and arrow, they just never fully leaned on it.
Reload increasing TTK is irrelevant. Only a really bad Ashe is gonna be missing that much to need a reload on a single target.
Again, consistency matters.
The range for TTK vastly increases with missed shots, but a slower RoF hero will see an even larger increase, because missed shots would be punished more. There is no question about that.
Hanzo plays as if he has a one-shot, but doesnāt. He gets punished the same (+ more) as before without one.
His damage would be reasonable if he had a similar primary fire-rate to Ashe.
Not gonna happen. Heās already weak enough.
Guess I just have better long aim than most then, because I play him mid to long range and constantly hear that PLINK sound. Even make Widows swap.
They were added to him, he didnāt have them before. He had sonic, scatter, and primary.
His original design was mid to long range, giving him unneeded abilities shifted him to close to mid range.
He also should have a reload animationā¦the fact that he can do so much damage without the penalty of reloading is absurd. Yes I know he uses arrows but still there needs to be a limit of how many he can just spam
A lot stronger. Only at 20m or less. That is what you fail to understand.
You are heavily restricting his range and capability for this strength with a kit that is not designed to operate soley at 20m.
Sure his DPS output is going to be scary AF but dive heroes donāt care about that. It is just going to be like the old Scatter days pre leap.
Hanzoās means of defending himself = Kill them before they kill you.
Not a very reliable strategy and if it ever was reliable, Hanzo would be the strongest hero in the game easily.
Thatās covered in the pull back animation. Somewhere like .7 seconds to 1 second (I canāt remember) for full damage.
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Um no?
For example, ash (not ADA) does 40 damage for body shot, so to kill a 250 health target she needs to land 7 shots.
Her mag holds 12 shots, meaning she needs to have accuracy of ~58%, if she misses 50% of her shots she now is required to reload.
While missing 50% isnt good, its not really bad.
Or you have heroes like symettra and mei who shares ammo between their guns, so runing out of ammo because you switch fireing modes is a common issue for them
or take tracer where you need to factor in reload as body shots only does 240 damage.
What?
Ash does 40 or 75 damage per bullet, hanzo does 120.
If you gave hanzo ashe level of fire rate, he would be busted.
For example hanzo DPS is currently ~94
If you gave him ashe rof it would be 450 or 185 (ashe has 2 rate of fire)
one is stupidly hight, not even bastion does that much in turret mode, and the other one would make him the highest DPS if not darn close to the highest.
Like on what planet would that be Reasonable?
that is in effect making hanzo have 2x damage
Theres gotta be a compromise, unfortunately, every character (bar Widow maybe and even her needs to charge longer) has had their TTK nerfed in some way on the HP increase patch, what else do you want?
It would also be at 20-40m, even at a 30% fall-off scale (i put on 50, so at worst he would deal half the damage) he would still deal significant damage at 30 ish meters since its all buffed as well.
With enough compesation (see topic) it could be a net buff though.
Thats people being too predictable, not enough DINKs though to make it reliable i wager and alot of it goes down to luck.
His original design made no sense though, he had Scatter to for some reason one shot some tanks even if they got too close but it was all dumb anyways, his arrows were so ridiculously slow that the enemy had to be utterly asleep for you to reliable hit them.
This. RNG shouldnāt be in a skill-based FPS game. Hanzo spamming left click without even reloading, shooting peopleās auras and getting oneshots is ridiculous. He needs at least some reload-like animation after 10 arrows or something.
No, these changes are silly and do not need implementing.
Or the fact you know, I can aim.
Made plenty of sense. He was a defense character, meant to deny areas of play. Scatter and sonic did just that.
Those tanks had means of surviving it, just never paid attention. Iāve advocated for it to return with less damage, because SA is a bigger example of unneeded abilities.
Thatās a personal issue, I had no issues killing with Hanzo from beta until his rework.
These obviously are silly since there are no tests done.
No you cannot predict other people movements to a reliable degree, only if they are not even trying.
So much sense, his only good competitive play was being picked to use Sonic at the start o the round.
I never said Scatter was too strong mind you.
I for one start running into issues when facing strong GM opponents.
It would be reasonable because a lot of that damage amounts to nothing, because enemies have a chance to get into cover before he can even let loose another shot. Itās a question of efficiency.
As far as missing shots and hitting bodies go, think of it this way:
Hanzo is more likely to hit the bad end of the TTK than Ashe is (and very often fail the kill), and heās less likely to hit the good end of the TTK than Ashe is. Why? Because heās not consistent, due to the nature of projectile. Youāre more likely to hit two headshots on Ashe than it is to get an HS and a body on Hanzo. Not to mention he shoots slowly enough that that second shot often doesnāt even land, thatās 240 HP worth of ātrash damageā. Ashe doesnāt have this problem. Again, efficiency.
Who the heck would do this?
Thatās literally a personal issue with yourself. I hit shots all the time, itās not that hard.
How to spot a fake Hanzo player 101.
And I said only two tanks could get one shot by it and they had means to stop that damage.
Broke my x button doubting you.
Im so confused now?
what is your point?
My orginal point was that hanzo TTK and shots to kill are similar to most heroes
1-3 shots and 1-3 seconds.
That is true, we have done the math.
So what is your point?
Like what you just said doesnt change that his TTK and shots to kill are similar to many heroes?
Ya people miss, and that changes TTK but that varries so much and from person to person.
Ah so we can buff syms orb damage back up to 2 taping because alot of that damage ammounts to nothing?
Also its still not āreasonableā you are effectivley saying lets double their damage.
It would be like increasing sym orbs from 100 to 200 damage.
Its not even close to reasonable.
Maybe if you said something like pharah ROF and removed crits, (as pharah does 120 damage as well) that would be reasonable and make sence, but ash?
You litteraly just said āgive hanzo 2x damageā