Except sheâs played more and is more accepted by others. Especially right now. How is that a failure?
Naw I donât think the skill floor should be looked at intensively as long as it isnât above the average which I donât think sym 2.0 was. I think itâs much more important to look at the average skill where the majority of the playerbase is so midway up the skill curve really. And I think when looking at that sym 2.0 wasnât overtuned
I donât think she was a problem hero for the majority of players. Because her kit was designed in a good way. She has a higher skill floor than most but the rate that you improve with sym is much harder than any other character. Trying to squeeze extra value out of the primary is borderline impossible a bronze sym and a master sym will have similar kill times with the primary because itâs set. But The time to kill is of the primary is balanced around the majority of players. This only becomes a problem at the extreme ends of the spectrum so bronze players will think is broken yet a gm player will see it as a very weak tool.
I really donât agree with the majority of the points you made about low skill high reward. The turrets were heavily dependent on creative placement and took a lot of skill to manage especially with the long cooldown. If anything that would be an ability that can be anywhere from no reward to high reward dependent on your skill.
The primary is a low skill tool but I wouldnât give it high reward. It was medium at best. It had a time to kill of over 2 seconds which is a bit below average. And it relied on close range
The ult isnât that skill dependent but it adds a lot of creativity which I liked it was a secondary objective that the enemy could focus. I thought that was an interesting addition in this game
Yet look at the photon barrier it was a very high skill ability. Much harder to master than stuff on any other kit. Sym wasnât all about low skill she had elements of her kit that allowed for a clear distinction between bad syms and good ones which is nice
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I guess that everyone is entitled to his own opinion no matter the objective data is presented to them and sorry for my possibly codesending attitude for the rest of this post, butâŚ
Symmetra 2.0 had a very low skill floor. Thatâs a fact.
Symmetra 2.0 was a very - well performing hero for all ranks from Bronze up to even low Platinum at times.
Thatâs a fact.
Sorry, I hope Iâm not becoming rude but these things are non - negotiable and Iâm not even going to try for the 10th time to prove them. Also, I still have the feeling that you are mostly talking about Symmetra 2.0âs skill ceiling, which if you do, then excuse the previous contents of this post because I agree. But if youâre talking about her actual skill floor, then sorry, but I think youâve mixed those two up 
If she was well performing, why she was barely picked even in those ranks?
I keep getting mixed up with high and low skill floor.
Sym 2.0 took less skill to get higher value than the majority of the cast at her skill floor. But this didnât put her in a place where the rest of the cast couldnât compete with her
Itâs also not surprising that sym 2.0 would do well up to plat most heroâs work well at play. it just depends on how well versed the opponent is against sym.
But I donât believe sym gave anyone and unfair advantage when compared to the other heroâs. Thatâs what breaks the line to op and oppressive. Sym wasnât there due to her severe weaknesses. If you were to look at all of syms advantages she does look broken but we have to take into account all the weaknesses the devs put in to balance out those advantages.
I think a lot of this is very debatable mainly what abilities and skills you see as low skill high reward. The primary isnât an oppressive gun because of its limitations ramp up and short range and moderate dps are fair enough trades for lock on.
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Excuse me if Iâm wrong, but I have seen multiple metrics showing 60%+ win rates for Symmetra 2.0 in the ranks I mentioned and even moreâŚ
So really, that doesnât seem like âunderperformingâ to meâŚ
someone doesnât know how low pickrates conflates to high winrates
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I see that you are making a lot of references to Symmetra 2.0âs clear weaknesses, which is a very logical thing to do, but thereâs unfortunately one thing youâre missing hereâŚ
These weaknesses that you are talking about and that I as nothing but a mediocre player agree to are simply not exploitable by the players who always faced the biggest problems with 2.0 due to her really âlow skill = high rewardâ design, which are the low - ranked players, AKA the majority of the player base.
Thatâs why this argument that youâre trying to make ultimately holds no waterâŚ
Oh trust me, I know.
But then in the same logic why doesnât Bastion have a 60%+ win rate in every single rank?
Last time I checked he had the smallest pick rate in the whole game and is considered as a useless pick by high - ranked players in the same way that Symmetra 2.0 used to as well?
So, please, explain to me this phenomenon, because something really doesnât add upâŚ
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She only has been played more because she is meta in double barrier and people still hate her. And sheâs still not viable in higher ranks. Failure.
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That doesnât matter? Her pickrate went up after her rework, her winrate was still high. Thatâs outside of double shield. Thatâs a success. People hate her because her design is widely considered obnoxious, that has nothing to do with the rework. Oh, and not everything is about the pros. Her viability in the top .01% should mean absolutely nothing.
The rework has been statistically and, in my experience, socially a success.
What did it go up to? From 1 percent to 3?
Please donât act like there was a new influx of Sym mains after her rework. She is still extremely niche and no better than she was back when she was harder to play. A brain dead DPS style is just easier than using the hero for her original purpose. This does not make the hero better, just more accessible to people who canât fathom support characters who canât heal.
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I donât buy that at all the simplest weakness which is her short range should be exploited by all players.
I donât care what rank you are that should be a fundamental skill for the players to understand. Knowing effective ranges of heroâs is a must.
The majority of the playerbase should be able to recognize reaper at point blank range as a threat same with sym. Staying out of that range is a skill that everyone should know
You simply canât balance a game without fundamental skills being a requirement
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Symmetra wasnât much of an issue, unless you happened to run into spider nest of turrets.
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Yeah, from <1% to mid 2%. Is that not enough for you? Because 18 other heroes have picrates under 3%. 2% is a very decent pickrate.
She was harder to play because she was garbage. Trash and weak kit on top of a braindead auto aim = bad hero design. Now her kit has functionality and her teleporter has more uses. Her turrets have more HP and she doesnât need to be practically on top of the wall to place them.
Her kit now has more depth and requires mechanical skill now. I 100% disagree on her being easier now. Her skill floor is so much higher. I donât personally care about her category, she clearly has always been a hybrid DPS/Support, and she still maintains elements of that playstyle with her teleporter.
Note: The âtrash kit and braindead auto aim=bad heroâ sounds bad, so Iâm going to attempt to expand on that. Her kit was bad, her kit was weak. She had to be on top of walls to place turrets, but those turrets were destroyed immediately. The cooldown for all 6 was ridiculously high. Her main source of value as a support came from her âshieeeeeld generator,â but the rest of her kit was bland. All she had was a shield generator and her auto-aim beam. But if they were to buff her kit to make it stronger like it is now and leave her with the auto-aim, people would not be happy for understandable reasons.
If you really want to argue numbers with me, then specify which you are talking about. What pick rates are you comparing? Meta pickrates with double shield or original pick rates after her rework? Where are you getting your info from?
She was harder to play because she was garbage. Trash and weak kit on top of a braindead auto aim = bad hero design. Now her kit has functionality and her teleporter has more uses. Her turrets have more HP and she doesnât need to be practically on top of the wall to place them.
No, she was just garbage to people who didnât know how to think outside of the box with her. She was all about strategy, minus her autolock which was not really a benefit to Sym mains but a weakness with such disgustingly short range. Her alt fire was the best thing about her because it went through shields
Her kit now has more depth and requires mechanical skill now. I 100% disagree on her being easier now. Her skill floor is so much higher. I donât personally care about her category, she clearly has always been a hybrid DPS/Support, and she still maintains elements of that playstyle with her teleporter.
Nah, throwing a TP behind the enemy team is not harder than having to set up and predict where the enemy is going to go. There is no skill in throwable turrets that you can put anywhere in the middle of a team fight. How is her kit more in depth? She has three throwable turrets and a TP ability. Thatâs pretty self explanatory, not much to think about when your only use is throwing turrets and TPing.
Honestly you just sound like an old Sym hater that thinks all Symâs only won because of their auto lock ability.
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I wish they just nerfed shield gen a bit and left her with what you call brain dead kit
The photon barrier had more depth in it alone than what the majority of 3.0 has
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Every hero that relies on enemyâs making mistakes is labeled as âbrain deadâ?
To die from turret, someone has to predict, where certain player will go, and put it in correct spot, for example.
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I use that term ironically, because thatâs what DPSing is in my opinion until you start getting smart about your picks. But default DPSing is just shooting to shoot. Thatâs what Sym is forced to be now, just someone who does brain dead damage with few other uses outside of her nerfed TP.
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I actually forgot about photon barrier. I was thinking ORGINAL Symmetra lol. Thatâs my bad, I do 100% love her old photon barrier. Big brain plays there.
Overbuff, but I donât think I can pull out numbers from old months. I just have a general idea because I check the stats daily. Her general pickrate DID increase after her buff to the 1%-2%. Now sheâs in the mid 2%s.
Then where was her OWL picks? Where were her GM picks? Masters? The biggest brains in OW knew she was weak. Iâd be okay with her shots still piercing shields.
Thereâs only a certain number of places to go. Even then, when they see a bright blue beam, all they had to do was cough on it and they were all good again. And if thatâs all you use new TP for, thatâs on you. The potential is still higher.
Honesty? Nah. I donât like Symmetraâs old design, but mostly because of how dumb and situational it was. Especially old Symmetra 1.0. Her turrets were too weak, they posed zero threat. Symmetra giving you a hard time? Go Winston and itâs like the game is a 6v5. Auto aim was annoying, but itâs not like itâs some godsent strategy that carries to GM. I just killed her before she could ramp up damage. Her only redeeming factor that made me feel like she was ever a threat was shield generator. Thereâs a reason her pickrate was so low across ALL ranks, dude.
However, I did play on console for the first 2 years of the gameâs life. So aiming wasnât as fine tuned, so auto aim heroes were especially powerful there.