I miss the hero called Symmetra (1.0 & 2.0) 😔

Think I can tell you, why Blizzard is doing that.

Tanks and supports are multipliers of DPS force. But what happens, when 2 DPS clash in fight, and one has tanks/supports by their side? They win, even if their skill level is lower.

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I remember shield gen, Torb and Brigitte love equaling in immortal Tracer.

It was fun though, unlike 222

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Which is perfectly fine, when you remember, that it’s coordinated effort of buffing one hero to broken level. Just like stacking up healers on tank, allowing one to endure nearly anything.

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Exactly, that what made the game fun.

5 tanks + Lucio was very stupid idea. But it was fun. And people did that.

It kinda like PUBG - weapon spawn was really, really random long ago. It was annoying, but it was fun also.
Now you got machine guns everywhere. Game lost its very special feel

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And sometimes it even worked.

Even in TF2, it’s usually one player carrying everyone to victory, having their own, personal healer, usually best Medic in the team. Rest follow their lead.

And battle of 2 carrying players from opposite teams is like clash of titans: everyone just stop fighting and watch that battle of duos.

Oh lord

:flushed::flushed::flushed::flushed:

I much prefer new sym personally :grinning:

This is the real source of the Sym angst. They want that which should have never been in game.

For you sym mains you never think about BALANCE, you can’t f*cking compare her to herself, there are 30 other heroes in case you didn’t know.

A ranged secondary who goes through barriers isn’t “unique” but straight up UNBALANCED…

A primary who locks on target just destroys the base of a game like overwatch that relies on the fact that people will eventually make mistakes (f*ck moira btw who destroys this logic with her dumb kit)

I haven’t read the whole thing but just by reading those i can see how some players don’t even care about the game being fair.

i dont miss her : )

20 chars

This is some big brain satire.

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I still think Sombra should had been released as the second non-healer support instead of being shoved into Offense for two reasons.

First, because it would signal very clearly that she was not “another flavor of Tracer” and being immediately dismissed when she couldn’t flank and burn a target down like Tracer do.

Second, to strength their argument that support do not mean healer, solidifying their argument by giving more characters to point for that besides Symmetra. Just like how Wrecking Ball solidified the “tank do not mean barrier”, which was a common argument to dismiss Roadhog as a tank.

IMO, backing off from the non-healer support options just made more difficult for them to add unique supports into the game.

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True, Sombra could have been a damn decent support. And in a way she already is, she protects the backline far better than Brigitte does after she got nerfed, and her healing from hacked packs is not to be underestimated.

Tweak her stats a bit, maybe replace her teleporter with another support-ish ability, and they could have a damn cool defensive support that heavily discourages flanking your team.

I miss the hero called Doomfist with 300 damage rp and 3 secs of airlock uppercut and his 20m slam with cc and his old ultimate. :pensive:

You see where sym 2.0 had those weaknesses she also had amazing strengths that’s why she was an amazing character.

Piercing shot does sound weak when you think about how slow it was. But your not taking into account individual matchups. Rein can’t dodge the orbs with his barrier up and has to sidestep meaning he isn’t claiming ground. Orissa can’t shoot and dodge either. This is very strong two of the most played tank combos has characters that the orbs have very favorable matchups with. Double shield would be countered by old orbs.

The next best thing about old orbs is how they set up the team. Sym is constantly creating a distraction at the least or getting large burst damage at best. This makes flankers jobs so easy. The enemy isn’t going to be able to focus on both the orbs and your flankers at the same time.

Shield gen was broken it needed a nerf yet it was still amazing at supporting the team. A flanker with 75 extra health is a monster.

With this and piercing shot together I know double shield would have a clear weakness to dive teams running sym. Your flankers would just be set up so well to deal with the barriers they survive longer and they are fighting weakened/distracted enemies

I was a gm sym 2.0 her pickrates would not have dropped in this meta if anything she would be receiving the same boost in power as 3.0. The only difference is that sym 2.0 has her own weaknesses which makes her more healthy for the game mirror comps are not the best when fighting old sym. Old sym helped enable offtanks like zarya and Dva giving them a strong place in this game

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I can’t help but feel with the Turret nerfs on PTR Sym is even a sadder state. She’s basically a weaker Zarya in every way now.

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I’d argue against that. Sym 2.0 took a lot of skill if you actually wanted to get far with her.

And healthier for the game that’s a joke my friend. Sure sym 2.0 had some bad stuff like shield gen being oppressive but that would be one balance change. Yet old sym had just as many healthy things for this game

Old piercing shots were extremely healthy for this game it actually was a safeguard against stacking barriers together which if you look around is a major issue recently.

If anything sym 2.0 is significantly more healthy vs this new version. Old sym enabled off tanks like zarya and Dva with orbs. She was a hero with clear weaknesses and great strengths

Acting like 2.0 wouldn’t be objectively a lot stronger with the addition of double barrier comps is dumb. She would be receiving the same boost in strength as sym 3.? Is now. If she were still in this game it would help promote counterpicking. Sym has weaknesses but she would be very strong vs double shield. This would make a very healthy meta

Sym dive>double shield> rien zarya>sym dive

But in our current game with have

Double shield = mirror> everything else

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You’re talking about the hero’s skill ceiling here.

I was talking about Symmetra 1.0/2.0 skill floor.

Sorry, but I’ll stop you right here.

How about the extremely “low skill = high reward” frustrating mess that was her primary fire for most players?

How about her 6 extremely frustrating “low skill = high reward” for most players turrets that were really frustrating to play against mostly due to their huge slow effect that on top of everything would stack as well.

How about her Teleporter ULT, which was extremely frustrating to play against and overall another “low skill = high reward” ability into the mix for most players, that gave Symmetra the ability to essentially bring back her whole team who were rightfully outplayed by the other team from the dead with the mindless press of the button?

And how about the broken mess that was shield gen as you yourself said?

It’s really not a question and that’s what this statement:

Is nothing but objectively wrong.

(Besides everything though and as I previously said, I would love to see piercing RMB shots to come back (as long as their DPS is nerfed a bit), as it would do wonders for the game in its current state.

I never talked about Symmetra 2.0’s supposed power in the current META though… I plain and simple made objective remarks about the hero’s terrible design and of Symmetra 3.0’s much more superior performance in this aspect.

But really, since you brought that up, do you actually believe that Symmetra 2.0, whose only anti - shield ability were some extremely slow - moving piercing orbs would be able to outclass current Symmetra who actually charges her own weapon from the enemies’ shields and can even bypass their shields altogether with her much more versatile Teleporter, would be able to outclass current Symmetra?

Because really that couldn’t be further from the truth…

I agree. The Devs keep doing that to unique hero concepts and abilities. I think that no doubt Hanzo was improved as a hero but they turned scatter arrow (a unique skill) to just a regular extra dps skill. Same with Torb who used to have a unique defense purpose but they just turned him in a regular dps hero that has a powerup move. Brig who used to be a unique tank support hero is now just a bad support hero.

Sym probably the most changed out of all them. She used to have utility and now is just a regular DPS hero with a teleport skill. And with them continually nerfing her turrets, she just a shell of her original concept.

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why Should we balance characters around their skill floor though. We are all improving in this game. No one is just going to stay at the skill floor level forever. We just have different rates at which we improve

At the bottom of everyone’s skill floor sym will be very strong. Yet as people improve their skills sym loses her problem hero status. What is wrong with having a barrier of skill. If someone isn’t good enough they will be eventually as they learn the game more. There isn’t anything wrong with that.

For your last opinion on sym 3.0 being much stronger than 2.0 in this meta. Yes I do think 2.0 would be stronger and more important healthier counter than 3.0. Just look at the hero matchups sym 2.0 has an extremely advantageous edge on orisa. And don’t forget about shield gen. That ult and the orbs would be the perfect storm to enable dive vs double shield. And having dive be powerful vs double shield is so much healthier for the game than running sym 3.0 with their own double shields

Final note low skill high reward doesn’t last forever people will just improve to the point where that no longer works. We should look at characters once they get off of the skill floor where their average is

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The problem is though that every hero in this game has a relatively high skill floor, with some obvious exceptions that have even higher ones due to the game’s fundamental design.

So that means that with your logic, we wouldn’t be able to make any balance decisions if we only took into considerations a hero’s skill floor, which is more than wrong…

I understand what you’re trying to say, but really, saying that Symmetra 2.0 would be a healthy matchup in the current version of Overwatch is pure misinformation.

Yes she will have a relative upper hand against Double Shields comp and Dive, but really the first one has lost a lot of it’s traction due to the latest needs and Dive only ever affected a tiny 10% of the player base throughout it’s reign. So that means that the possible advantages of Symmetra 2.0 getting implemented in the current version of the game can in no way be compared to the disadvantages that change would introduce for the rest of the majority of the player base, due to the reasons I talked about in my previous posts.

So all of that pretty much renders such a change as an objectively unhealthy one for both the game overall and the hero itself, who would be stripped off her much more superior current design and kit.

Please refer back to the first part of this post.