Obviously talking about the period after coming out of invis; she has no burst damage unlike other flankers - no 1HK combo, no blinks to avoid damage but remain in the fight and maybe get a reload off during that time. Everything she does cancels her reload; her clip may have overall higher damage than tracer, but it takes 3 times as long to unload and a longer, again, impossible to cancel, reload. Genji has wallclimb, double jump, dash resets; tracer has blinks and recall, all allowing her to stay in the fight, and even allowing her to cancel her reload.
Yes, come out at a distance, meaning she has to go further away, since the range of her voice line is pretty large and there were recent changes to sounds like that (plus on the PTR it’s much, much louder and obvious atm). Yes, the PTR sort of addresses this, but it still feels bad to play, as someone who has a lot of time on that hero.
No, you moved the goalposts in order to do it; therefore you didn’t.
I’m seeing you all over the forum acting very much like a troll and you’re incredibly aggressive. You may want to stop with that.
Oh, I know why you do not like the changes. I just believe it is utterly absurd at this point. I was with all of the other Sombra mains until they more or less fixed most of the major issues. She always need compensation nerfs and that is what we got. That does not make her less dynamic, however.
I love Sombra but she definitely has some issues, even after this most recent change. Her flow is great but it requires quite a bit of planning, high APM, and longer periods of time outside of the engagement for value that has a relatively low cap. Notice I said value and NOT damage. Since Blizz are committed to sticking to the concept of the hero and don’t want to just pump up her DPS (which I agree with) I think they should focus on the only other part of her kit that provides any real value, Hack, and make sure there are less barriers in place to dealing damage but not outright increasing it. I would suggest the following:
Translocating Reloads: less downtime, better pursuit and repositioning. Increases the duration she can stay in an engagement without really increasing DPS
Successful Hack Generates Ult Charge: EMP is her best value and being able to work towards it without just relying on damage would be beneficial. Avoids the old health pack, ult charge problem of avoiding the engagement.
Micro Hack While Channeling Hack: While the hack is being channeled the target is considered to be hacked and cannot use cooldown based abilities. It would function much like a mini-stun but prevent targets from either outranging/LoSing her and/or could be used on tanks to force split-second barrier drops, allowing for coordinated team attacks. It would further incentive the use of Hack at the beginning/middle of an engagement when it would typically be interrupted because she can guarantee SOME value/opportunity for the team even if it fails, making Hack more reliable.
(Optional) Damage Buff for Rest of Mag after Leaving Stealth: Current base damage is 8 per shot, give 25% in to 10 per shot for the entire magazine after leaving stealth. This could add extra DPS value for short bursts. I’m not so sure about this one since it may be possible to keep it enabled almost all the time due to the low cooldown on Stealth and the large mag size, but I like it conceptually.
ah so again, she is only vulnerable for .7 seconds of her flank and not:
as you claimed.
tracer and genji have no ability that makes enemies unable to use their abilities, nor an instant transport to safety either. Its almost like they are more deadly because they are more vulnerable
same with genji if he wall climbs, reload canceled
if he dashes , reload canceled.
Reflect? Reload canceled.
Tracers abilities do no damage and while she can reload and blink, she cannot instantly teleport 20 meters away to a health pack either. and has 50 less health than sombra.
as every flanker who wants to flank safely does.
so are tracers yelps of joy and woosh sounds, and genjis grunts we already addressed this.
ive got a lot of time on the hero too (I have multiple accounts) and I think with the current changes being implemented she will be fine.
or what? Sorry, but I’m allowed to express my opinion. You don’t get to tell me to stop putting it out there because you don’t like it and feel its “aggressive”
I am going to enjoy the option to use Sombra to not play the game and sit behind the enemy lines indefinitely, leaving my team out to fend for themselves.
Nope, the entire point explains why she’s vulnerable for the entire thing, and you’ve clearly dodged it completely. Nice try.
Genji has dash, resets on dash, wallclimb to escape, (or use the new highground position to reload) deflect; he and tracer are faster, meaning they can also strafe effectively alot more easily while reloading too. And again, it doesn’t matter that tracer’s abilities don’t do damage because she has incredibly high APM and can stay in the fight effectively to deal devastating DPS.
Again, timer on invis
Yes, but she’s not completely vulnerable during it. Stop moving the goalposts.
OK, cool. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion.
Again, your opinion; fine. But you’ve not just been putting your opinion forward; you’ve been attacking others alot and as a standard troll in a debate would do, you’re constantly moving the goalposts of the debate. I’ve not spoken to you elsewhere but I’ve seen it, and its frankly appalling. There is no ‘or what’ - this is not a threat; if you continue like that the chances are that there will be repercussions by forum mods though.
You know, seeing as the PTR isn’t necessarily the best test environment, you may want to say “The logic behind how you think this will make her better, because as some people have stated, it doesn’t necessarily feel like it’s making her stronger overall and kind of does feel like a straight nerf from how she is on live. I think there are benefits(being able to invis, translocate in the air and reposition midfight for example, being a better spawn camper) but being unable to contest and losing a game in ot because you went invis feels REALLY bad. So saying something to that affect would make these changes easier
Revert changes
Keep ability to destroy translocator by a hotkey
Keep hack while reloading
Keep EMP change
On top of that:
Increase stealth duration to 6-9s(possibly cap contest at one touch per stealth use)
Give her 6 baseline movespeed
Give her damage threshold on hack/entering stealth
Give hack better visual indication so teammates can easily see it
Fix bugs
Maybe give her +5-10 clip size or +1-2 bullet damage
No she is invisible the entire flank and not vulnerable like genji and tracer which is why you said:
none of these things, are an instantaneous transport to safety like I said. and genji and tracer are still vulnerable while trying to get away with these things. it is precicely because sombras out is guaranteed safety she doesn’t have these type of abilities that do more in combat. She has guaranteed safety, they have combat effectiveness with a chance to escape.
uh idk if you know this, but tracer can still be shot where she blinks and recalls to.
its a completely lateral and predictable movement. both of them if you can track, she is very vulnerable. Hard to hit. but vulnerable.
hate to break it to you, but the forums are for discussion. putting an opposing opinion on a post is not attacking. its doing what the forums were designed for.
I’m not moving anything, simply saying I’m doing this doesn’t make it true. from the beginning I have stayed with the same sentiments. You are the one who has brought up “well yeah but x hero can do this” and that is moving a goalpost.
chances are as long as I break any rules, like I haven’t, nothing will happen.
Yeah, the lack of space for chatwheel callouts and voicelines makes me sad. (Especially chatwheel callouts, since having them assigned to a button gives extra functionality that isn’t present if you just use the chatwheel.)
I literally just answered that question in the post you’re quoting to, but I can rephrase it for you:
Having faster speed for a short duration, is more valuable then having slower speed for an infinite duration, because of the way Overwatch is played. Your argument would be sound if Overwatch was a battle royal game, but taking into account the space between you and your opponent, having ten seconds of 75% extra movement speed is more then enough. The majority of time you will close the gap to your target in less then five seconds, and then you don’t need Stealth any longer because you can’t perform any action while in Stealth.
Therefor, we lose 25% movement speed to gain something that we’re never going to use. I’m still going to play Sombra the same way, regardless of whether Stealth is infinite or not, because that’s the most effective way of playing Sombra. If you could perform an action while in Stealth, if you gained a bonus for 2 seconds when coming out of Stealth, or if you could just come out of Stealth instantly, then there would be an actual reason to stay in Stealth. But that’s not the case.
Staying out of Stealth is more of a benefit, because you can react instantly rather then having to wait 0.7 seconds to react. That might not seem a lot, until you take into account that Hack has a cast time of 0.65 seconds, and you can deal around 112 damage in 0.7 seconds.
Thank you for reverting the detection Radius and enabling us to destroy a translocator with the interact key.
-Problems still with Sombra-
1.Not being able to contest in stealth is a direct nerf still which does not get alleviated by having permanent stealth. 24/7 stealth is not an advantage for Sombra if she cannot use it do anything different from what she was already doing so you effectively have still limited something Sombra can do rather than give her a new strength.
My opinon = Perma stealth was not needed and is not worth having for more negatives in Sombra kit. Only worth having if you give Sombra burst attack, possibly at very close range, otherwise you are not changing the fact that 5v6 is occuring while Sombra is “waiting” and “scouting” encouraging hide and go seek play which was frowned upon when Mercy big rez was a thing. I don’t understand how Mercy hiding was bad but Sombra hiding is good on a design stand point.
Her damage potential has remained unchanged therefore she still needs to do the same thing she’s been doing typically which is to engage weak targets.
My opinion = That’s fine and all but she isn’t strong in brawls outside of this, which anyone can simply finish off a target better anyways + do more real damage all the while. I don’t see how say a Tracer or Genji especially is being outdone and should switch to play Sombra for the given team position still.
Hacking is still buggy and is terrible in 1v1 dueling situations where she was seemingly designed to prevail. If you hack a Genji, Tracer, Doomfist and they notice you at all what so ever and sprinkle you with damage / move in a fast manner your hack will come off and you will lose this engagement if both players skill match each other. Tracer is especially hard to hack when a teleport ruins your hack entirely and Genji can simply double jump sometimes to get your hack off as well… bug perhaps with Genji or too strict on your middle mouse cursor to hack?
My opinion = Revert the LoS checks and give back the .10 second hack portion. Sombra lived healthy for two weeks and only those two weeks, I hope you guys can understand that this did not enable her to do damage any better than she does now but simply do the job you wanted her to do which was stay in combat and hack targets more reliably. Because you still haven’t reverted or revised how this works she is still a hero that relies on running to health pack stations except with nerfs that prevent her from getting EMP charge by doing so.
-TLDR-
Her “in combat and staying there” state is unchanged on live or PTR and still promotes run away to saftey play.
-Final Thoughts-
Balance Sombra more on using hack or putting out more damage. Pick one, because she needs either or to be warranted as a worthy pick on a 6 man team. Stealth is not the issue, but it does enable other players to player her easier if this was your goal. These players however won’t likely make Sombra any more worth using though since the lower skill bar of entry means people will play her without good aim or understanding of how team reliant she still is. If I could tell you how often a Sombra solo EMPs an enemy team where you have no possible way to utilize the opening…
These are nice, but they still mean Sombra’s just going to be a niche pick, someone who only gets selected when there’s a Reinhardt or a Bastion. Hacking most heroes is pretty inconsequential and she sure as heck can’t beat anyone in a fight.
I was being rhetorical. 75% on stealth is overpowered if it’s there all the time. 50% is a very good compromise. If you have trouble making jumps use your translocator.
