Yup, she ALMOST outheals torbs turret, pretty sure the 2 things she outheals or equally heals is moira’s damage and mei’s freeze damage (not icicle). That’s sad for a “main healer”!
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She can also out heal Brig’s base damage without any of her abilities, but her healing is so bad that even with an off healer she is spending like 90% of her time alive healing where if there is any other main heal/off heal comp they can handle themselves just fine and have opportunities to use their utilities.
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Forgot about brig…![:joy:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
. But yup totally agree
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this
thank you, well stated…
is it possible that mercy is no longer a main healer???
Because those aren’t the only two groups of people. You left out the enormous group of people who play Mercy and also think she’s fine.
Mercy is neither weak, nor brain dead. She’s also not boring (at least not for me). She does however need a tweak in her healing so she can do a better job main healing a two tank comp alongside an off healer.
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Because some people want her to be able to be viable at all levels of the game. The only way she is viable all the time at all SR is when she is overpowered.
Others realize that with her current design she should cap out at the middle ranks/low diamond when mechanical skill makes Ana more viable. Mercy is a hero “balanced for the majority”. Easy to use, no aim requirements, etc. When she has a high pick rate at all levels of the game, she is overtuned.
If they want to rework her to be more mechanically demanding or have a higher skill ceiling by all means she can be viable at all levels of the game. Until then she should be the go to for the “majority” of the player base and serve as more of an introductory hero.
Not necessarily.
There is a difference in wanting her viable at all ranks, and having her as the go-to pick in all ranks. I want the former, but don’t want the latter.
I feel like Mercy, if put in the effort to master should be a pick in higher ranks. I’ve discussed this a lot with my duo, and honestly what I’d like to see is a scenario where Mercy is a Dominant Pick from bronze - Gold; Gold - Diamond is where the shift from Mercy to Ana occurs; and Diamond up is where Ana is dominant. BUT if someone sat down, and dedicated to themselves to Mercy, or Ana, or anyone they would be able to climb with that hero. So, like in GM Mercy might not be the preferred pick, but no one is going to groan or throw their hands up in preemptive defeat and will instead go “alright, let’s see what you can do” as is the case when people pick heroes like Widow or Hanzo, they’re not meta by any means, and they’re a risky pick but they’re given a chance.
In higher Ranks, yes Ana should be the one who is easier to get value out of because the mechanical skill is there, but with enough effort Mercy should be able to use the game sense mechanics of her kit to pull herself up to Ana’s level (IE. The player has to know Mercy’s kit inside and out and play near perfectly). We saw it in S3 (before the invul buff) and now we’re getting to a point to where even in Silver - Gold Mercy is considered a troll pick, which is lower than it’s ever been.
EDIT WITH STATS:
Just so I can back up the “she’s being picked less than ever” argument. Back in S3 (Feb 2107) According to OmnicMeta Mercy had a 10% pick rate. Now, according to overbuff (because OmnicMeta hasn’t done a meta analysis since September) Mercy is at 3% when only looking at the supports. If we were to add in Moira’s stats (due to her similar playstyle) she is still only at 5%.
So, this rework seems to have made her less viable in a similar meta than S3. In comparison Ana is the second most picked support at 30% according to Overbuff simply looking at the supports, If you look at all heroes her pick rate is 11.31 (which if you multiply by 6 to account for team size (i think this is how this works I could be wrong) you get 67.86% which is similar to her 87% in GM from S3 according to Omnic Meta.
If you recalculate Mercy using the second method you get 7.44%
Yeah, ults are strong, DPS outputs are high and other factors make her nerfed heal ineffective. She is more off healer now, no longer a main healer. Leading to your team mates dying more because you picked her over Ana/Moira etc.
Her damage boost is more useful now lol. How sad.
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This is true. I feel that this is not the problem area. A lot of people just do not want Mercy to be active in their game. In part because they feel a “weak and braindead, and boring” character should have no role in the game period. So when Mercy is brought into an engaging non brain dead state they work to get her put back there and quote the mantra “Mercy is in a fine place now” which mentally finishes up as “Mercy is in a fine place now because she is no longer in any of my games.”
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My version of the final sentence above: Mercy is in a fine place now and she is in many of my games
average healing doesn’t really say much about her performance imo. sure she can pump out on-demand consistent heals but when it comes to team fights where damage input is high, her heals cannot keep up with the demand. with 60 hps she could keep up AND juggle her beam (which determines if you’re a good decision maker with mercy) but now she can barely outheal even a 1v1 of your ally and an enemy
This.
15 Characters.
One of the best proofs is in the 10 megathreads that were wrote during this last year. Yes, you’ll find a very vocal portion of the people there writing over and over again, but you’ll also find a lot of more people, some of them writing for the first time or just once in a blue moon, expressing their opinion at a certain time.
Just some examples of how reverted Mercy made her less accessible. I remember two people with uncommon problems (I won’t say their names because of privacy reasons). One of them was autistic, and he was complaining about how Mercy’s new design was impossible for him to handle. Other had a problem with the visual rework of her beams. Boosting beam was hurting his eyes. As you can see, I’m not talking about balance. These were only two complaints in an entire sea of them.
Sadly, the old forums got changed and now it’s harder to recover those threads, but if you reach the megathreads, there you are probably more than half a million posts of complains (and troll posts too, in the end megathreads were just a dumpster were everything was ignored) in total.
None playerbase can be considered a majority. In fact, no community can be considered a majority unless you start being ridiculous (people who breath, lol). Following the logic of a community being always a minority, we could confidently say that Ow is an unpopular game because it’s played just by a very tiny portion of the world population, but we know this would be false, at least yet.
However, when you take only the Mercy playerbase, a lot of people are upset in some way, and so others out of that community. A great example of that feeling is the ReworkMercy movement, something completely new because it’s the first time in Ow’s history that an entire community (I’m not talking about Ow’s community, but as Jeff himself pointed out, a community inside the community) is trying to search a consensus for changing a character who was loved before, but now it’s not enjoyed by many people. And be aware, there are people who think way differently, it’s not just an echo chamber.
Another proof would be checking the forums and measuring the complaints about Mercy. They started to skyrocket since the valk thing was announced.
Last but not least, you can check how many people have quitted the game (7% of the playerbase lost from last January to before Christmas event). Yes, Mercy is not going to be the #1 reason of this (match matching has been terrible), but usually, whenever I asked someone about why he left the game, Mercy was mentioned. Many people argue that Ow’s community became too toxic when her revert back to valk started.
Watching the ridiculous number of complaints (and complaints about how frequently people complain about Mercy), seeing the decrease of players, the organized movement around reworking her, with approval from even some well known streamers, knowing that from the people who plays her, many of them are complaining about her, etc… I would confidently say that she is not enjoyed as she was before anymore.
If we take the whole Ow community, then yes, current Mercy is great to play against because you don’t have to make any real strategy around her. She uses valk? Keep your life going as it was before. She uses rez? Seek her.
Wrong. There weren’t complaints from the whole playerbase at all. In fact, those complaints were infinitely smaller than the number of complaints about current Mercy. Yes, hide and rez existed, but the solution for that, since it was an exploit, were QoL changes, never a revert back to the 3 worst designs in Mercy’s history. Finally, yes, she was F-tier at certain ranks, but why? Easy. She had no mid game utility, no E ability. All her power was concentrated in her ult. That meant that whenever the people learnt to deal with her mass rez (extremely easy to counter at pro ranks), she was pointless in comparison with other supports. So what the solution was? Sacrifice some of that power and give her a new and real E ability (not her ult). Easy. No reverts needed.
It could have been justifiable if it was different. Reverting the character back to bad designs from the past with old problems that were fixed for good is not justifiable when the problem wasn’t that terrible. Just to start with, the original valk design was so utterly broken that it should never have passed the ptr.
First comes design. Then comes balance. If a design is bad, there is no use in trying to balance it. That’s current Mercy, a “balanced” bad design. Why? Because it may be somewhat balanced, but that only comes disguising a lot of problems like E rez being utterly busted and unbalanceable. How was that disguised? Easy, violating Mercy’s core concept as a mobile support (immobility added) and nerfing everything else, even her basic kit, as compensation for it being busted yet. That’s not good balance at all.
Being boring is not the only reason to rework current Mercy, and even if it was… should I talk about why Blizz removed Molten Core? I thought they only talked about it being unfun to play as. Well, valk is just Molten Core’s ugly sister, even more boring. Finally, and as someone told you, Ow is a videogame, so things are meant to be fun to play as. If they are a chore, then there is a problem.
Well, that’s being selfish, because meanwhile, you have a lot of people who enjoyed her before and wait for their favourite hero to be fun again, after their fun being taken away just because a few people wanted to have more fun themselves. Not even bothering in finding a middle ground with those disenchanted people is the real definition of being selfish. You are prioritizing your fun over everyone’s.
Please, don’t mix fun to play as with fun to play against, they are two different things. Yes, something being unfun to play against shouldn’t be a reason to change it, there I agree. Why? Because there are two magical words in every game: “git gud”. You have a problem dealing with something? Learn to play around it. The problem only starts when there is nothing you can do about it, as it’s happening now with the spam fest. Once mass rez is gone, there is no counter at all for that braindead playstyle.
First of all, I lost the track of which version Mercy is supposed to be nowadays. We are for the 14th change by now if you ask me.
That said, that’s not necessarily the result of a rework. This revert back to alpha indeed had that result because it never took into consideration the Mercy playerbase. There are a lot of suggestions about how we could mix valk and rez without removing anyone of them (just an example: a Genji like mass rez. You go valk mode, just the movement thing, and instead of dashing people to death, you rez them one by one or something similar). Other suggestions include valk as Mercy’s E ability, which seems more fair, considering how valk is just an unengaging but extended Lucio’s amp it up + weaker but safer Orisa’s drums + Pharah’s flight.
The problem with valk is that it offers a lot of tiny things without doing anything special. It’s like a tree with too many branches. You can cut the unnecessary stuff and keep on with the best parts of it.
Oh, and if you like the bunny hop, don’t be worry because I’ve seen no suggestions that include removing it (or maybe I’ve forgotten them, but I’ve seen a lot of suggestions).
Sadly, that’s what they should have done since the beginning. Balancing a bad design is pointless, and the results are that people still want her changed because so many reasons (she is not fluid, she is lackluster, she is just a minion, she offers nothing above what the other supports can offer with just a little skill, etc, she only offers going battle Mercy while valk, and that’s it). Sadly, they rushed the revert and never admitted a single mistake about it, so they kept balancing what would never work and still is not working. The more they “balanced” it, the harder it was to do so, and that’s recognized even by streamers like YourOverwatch and Stylosa. They both say current Mercy is too hard to balance thanks to how busted E rez is, and how hard is valk to be really balanced.
Even if we reached a perfect “balance”, she would still have a lot of problems behind that surface, and that’s her real problem nowadays. Balancing her is useless because her design is bad and needs an overhaul.
Well, that first question is not the most important because yes, there are people who want Mercy 1.0 back, but so many of them would like having a new Mercy who had some of the 1.0 design’s excitement and potential. It’s not just a matter of take it or leave it.
Your second point is unpredictible, but it relies mostly on how good that 3.0 will be. If she is well designed and fix the 2.0 numerous problems, they will surely be just a few.
About the third question, usually mixing is the safest way to reach that point. As I’ve said before, there are suggestions that keep valk in some way or mix both ults. Usually, if you ask someone what does he like the most about valk, he will talk about her independence, mobility or simply chasing Widows while valk. However, if you ask someone about what they liked the most about mass rez, they will talk about its impact, the need of using your resources wisely (instead of the exploit somepeople used), and the potential it had.
The first statement, I agree with it. The second one, I see a problem. This is like when you have a jar and trying to clean it, you break it, but you make up the accident using cellophane. Why should you change that jar despite it’s “fine” now? Tbh, I know Ow’s team is not exactly the best one making reworks, but such a fudge like Mercy’s… That’s too hard to repeat.
The first statement I disagree with it. If Mercy is bad design, she should be reworked, but properly, no rushes, no fudges. The rest of that paragraph… if only Blizz had read that before and really listened…
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The same can be said for the anti-Mercy faction, who are prioritizing what they want - changes to Mercy - over what the rest of the community (who enjoys Mercy in her current state) want
I respectfully disagree. Factually, finding a middle point means finding a place where both parts are happy, so factually, that’s not being selfish, quite the opposite.
I was going to correct your point of view about what’s a pro and an anti-Mercy, but at this point, people have explained it so many times to you, so I conclude that you are being toxic for free there. I’m sorry, but factually, your definition of anti-Mercy is quite subjective, when it should be objective.
In my opinion, if something isnt broke, it shouldnt be fixed. And Mercy isn’t, as I see it
The chances that a rework in favor of the current anti-Mercy faction being well received by the rest of us is exceedingly slim, given that we already have something we like, very much so in fact. It is far, far more likely that such a rework will benefit only the anti-mercy faction, and as such, I personally find this position to be selfish in the extreme
I find my definition of anti-mercy to be quite objective and perhaps more importantly, a very clear and unambiguous definition
no the mercy mains are more like
i like how braindead she is but i wish it was enough to win
Well, she wasn’t broken before, so she should never have been broken with her original revert back to alpha, just to start with. Anyway, design comes first. If a character is bad design, and Mercy is bad design, balancing her is not solving her problems, but just disguising them. She is still freezed while rezzing, her ultimate is still lackluster and her E ability so busted that requires everything else to be weak. Her E ability is way more powerful than her ult yet. Her gamestyle is not fluid anymore… yet. Balancing her without making her overpowered again or entirely reworking her is close to impossible yet.
The chances of the anti-Mercy people who selfishly only care about their own fun and don’t want any type of constructive solution with the rest of the whole playerbase, who has seen their favourite hero taken away and transformed into an abomination, will never be satisfied, but fortunately, they are just the same 3-4 people writing over and over again. Basically, you and 3 more people. The rest, the pro-Mercys, are searching a solution in one or another way, regardless of their personal opinions about the character, trying to fix a problem that should never have existed, but now is a sad truth. Mercy community has been splitted in two. However, having constructive people who loves the character, and not just their own model like you, will lead us closer to find a solution. Hard? Yes, but that’s what happen when you break something that wasn’t broken and keep balancing a bad design. It’s harder to fix a house once built than when you are still building it.
Being constructive, generous and wanting to fix a problem that many people have, or trying to appease the part which is having fun trying to find a middle ground is being kind because you are giving and taking. Trying to impose your fun entirely over other people whether if they are having fun or not is selfish being you aren’t giving anything, just taking what you want. This is almost like a Sesame Street’s lesson.
Factually, your definition is 100% subjective and biased, entirely reliant of your personal and selfish point of view. I’m aware you are not precisely a pro-Mercy at all for a lot of people, quite the opposite.
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