average healing doesn’t really say much about her performance imo. sure she can pump out on-demand consistent heals but when it comes to team fights where damage input is high, her heals cannot keep up with the demand. with 60 hps she could keep up AND juggle her beam (which determines if you’re a good decision maker with mercy) but now she can barely outheal even a 1v1 of your ally and an enemy
This.
15 Characters.
One of the best proofs is in the 10 megathreads that were wrote during this last year. Yes, you’ll find a very vocal portion of the people there writing over and over again, but you’ll also find a lot of more people, some of them writing for the first time or just once in a blue moon, expressing their opinion at a certain time.
Just some examples of how reverted Mercy made her less accessible. I remember two people with uncommon problems (I won’t say their names because of privacy reasons). One of them was autistic, and he was complaining about how Mercy’s new design was impossible for him to handle. Other had a problem with the visual rework of her beams. Boosting beam was hurting his eyes. As you can see, I’m not talking about balance. These were only two complaints in an entire sea of them.
Sadly, the old forums got changed and now it’s harder to recover those threads, but if you reach the megathreads, there you are probably more than half a million posts of complains (and troll posts too, in the end megathreads were just a dumpster were everything was ignored) in total.
None playerbase can be considered a majority. In fact, no community can be considered a majority unless you start being ridiculous (people who breath, lol). Following the logic of a community being always a minority, we could confidently say that Ow is an unpopular game because it’s played just by a very tiny portion of the world population, but we know this would be false, at least yet.
However, when you take only the Mercy playerbase, a lot of people are upset in some way, and so others out of that community. A great example of that feeling is the ReworkMercy movement, something completely new because it’s the first time in Ow’s history that an entire community (I’m not talking about Ow’s community, but as Jeff himself pointed out, a community inside the community) is trying to search a consensus for changing a character who was loved before, but now it’s not enjoyed by many people. And be aware, there are people who think way differently, it’s not just an echo chamber.
Another proof would be checking the forums and measuring the complaints about Mercy. They started to skyrocket since the valk thing was announced.
Last but not least, you can check how many people have quitted the game (7% of the playerbase lost from last January to before Christmas event). Yes, Mercy is not going to be the #1 reason of this (match matching has been terrible), but usually, whenever I asked someone about why he left the game, Mercy was mentioned. Many people argue that Ow’s community became too toxic when her revert back to valk started.
Watching the ridiculous number of complaints (and complaints about how frequently people complain about Mercy), seeing the decrease of players, the organized movement around reworking her, with approval from even some well known streamers, knowing that from the people who plays her, many of them are complaining about her, etc… I would confidently say that she is not enjoyed as she was before anymore.
If we take the whole Ow community, then yes, current Mercy is great to play against because you don’t have to make any real strategy around her. She uses valk? Keep your life going as it was before. She uses rez? Seek her.
Wrong. There weren’t complaints from the whole playerbase at all. In fact, those complaints were infinitely smaller than the number of complaints about current Mercy. Yes, hide and rez existed, but the solution for that, since it was an exploit, were QoL changes, never a revert back to the 3 worst designs in Mercy’s history. Finally, yes, she was F-tier at certain ranks, but why? Easy. She had no mid game utility, no E ability. All her power was concentrated in her ult. That meant that whenever the people learnt to deal with her mass rez (extremely easy to counter at pro ranks), she was pointless in comparison with other supports. So what the solution was? Sacrifice some of that power and give her a new and real E ability (not her ult). Easy. No reverts needed.
It could have been justifiable if it was different. Reverting the character back to bad designs from the past with old problems that were fixed for good is not justifiable when the problem wasn’t that terrible. Just to start with, the original valk design was so utterly broken that it should never have passed the ptr.
First comes design. Then comes balance. If a design is bad, there is no use in trying to balance it. That’s current Mercy, a “balanced” bad design. Why? Because it may be somewhat balanced, but that only comes disguising a lot of problems like E rez being utterly busted and unbalanceable. How was that disguised? Easy, violating Mercy’s core concept as a mobile support (immobility added) and nerfing everything else, even her basic kit, as compensation for it being busted yet. That’s not good balance at all.
Being boring is not the only reason to rework current Mercy, and even if it was… should I talk about why Blizz removed Molten Core? I thought they only talked about it being unfun to play as. Well, valk is just Molten Core’s ugly sister, even more boring. Finally, and as someone told you, Ow is a videogame, so things are meant to be fun to play as. If they are a chore, then there is a problem.
Well, that’s being selfish, because meanwhile, you have a lot of people who enjoyed her before and wait for their favourite hero to be fun again, after their fun being taken away just because a few people wanted to have more fun themselves. Not even bothering in finding a middle ground with those disenchanted people is the real definition of being selfish. You are prioritizing your fun over everyone’s.
Please, don’t mix fun to play as with fun to play against, they are two different things. Yes, something being unfun to play against shouldn’t be a reason to change it, there I agree. Why? Because there are two magical words in every game: “git gud”. You have a problem dealing with something? Learn to play around it. The problem only starts when there is nothing you can do about it, as it’s happening now with the spam fest. Once mass rez is gone, there is no counter at all for that braindead playstyle.
First of all, I lost the track of which version Mercy is supposed to be nowadays. We are for the 14th change by now if you ask me.
That said, that’s not necessarily the result of a rework. This revert back to alpha indeed had that result because it never took into consideration the Mercy playerbase. There are a lot of suggestions about how we could mix valk and rez without removing anyone of them (just an example: a Genji like mass rez. You go valk mode, just the movement thing, and instead of dashing people to death, you rez them one by one or something similar). Other suggestions include valk as Mercy’s E ability, which seems more fair, considering how valk is just an unengaging but extended Lucio’s amp it up + weaker but safer Orisa’s drums + Pharah’s flight.
The problem with valk is that it offers a lot of tiny things without doing anything special. It’s like a tree with too many branches. You can cut the unnecessary stuff and keep on with the best parts of it.
Oh, and if you like the bunny hop, don’t be worry because I’ve seen no suggestions that include removing it (or maybe I’ve forgotten them, but I’ve seen a lot of suggestions).
Sadly, that’s what they should have done since the beginning. Balancing a bad design is pointless, and the results are that people still want her changed because so many reasons (she is not fluid, she is lackluster, she is just a minion, she offers nothing above what the other supports can offer with just a little skill, etc, she only offers going battle Mercy while valk, and that’s it). Sadly, they rushed the revert and never admitted a single mistake about it, so they kept balancing what would never work and still is not working. The more they “balanced” it, the harder it was to do so, and that’s recognized even by streamers like YourOverwatch and Stylosa. They both say current Mercy is too hard to balance thanks to how busted E rez is, and how hard is valk to be really balanced.
Even if we reached a perfect “balance”, she would still have a lot of problems behind that surface, and that’s her real problem nowadays. Balancing her is useless because her design is bad and needs an overhaul.
Well, that first question is not the most important because yes, there are people who want Mercy 1.0 back, but so many of them would like having a new Mercy who had some of the 1.0 design’s excitement and potential. It’s not just a matter of take it or leave it.
Your second point is unpredictible, but it relies mostly on how good that 3.0 will be. If she is well designed and fix the 2.0 numerous problems, they will surely be just a few.
About the third question, usually mixing is the safest way to reach that point. As I’ve said before, there are suggestions that keep valk in some way or mix both ults. Usually, if you ask someone what does he like the most about valk, he will talk about her independence, mobility or simply chasing Widows while valk. However, if you ask someone about what they liked the most about mass rez, they will talk about its impact, the need of using your resources wisely (instead of the exploit somepeople used), and the potential it had.
The first statement, I agree with it. The second one, I see a problem. This is like when you have a jar and trying to clean it, you break it, but you make up the accident using cellophane. Why should you change that jar despite it’s “fine” now? Tbh, I know Ow’s team is not exactly the best one making reworks, but such a fudge like Mercy’s… That’s too hard to repeat.
The first statement I disagree with it. If Mercy is bad design, she should be reworked, but properly, no rushes, no fudges. The rest of that paragraph… if only Blizz had read that before and really listened…
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The same can be said for the anti-Mercy faction, who are prioritizing what they want - changes to Mercy - over what the rest of the community (who enjoys Mercy in her current state) want
I respectfully disagree. Factually, finding a middle point means finding a place where both parts are happy, so factually, that’s not being selfish, quite the opposite.
I was going to correct your point of view about what’s a pro and an anti-Mercy, but at this point, people have explained it so many times to you, so I conclude that you are being toxic for free there. I’m sorry, but factually, your definition of anti-Mercy is quite subjective, when it should be objective.
In my opinion, if something isnt broke, it shouldnt be fixed. And Mercy isn’t, as I see it
The chances that a rework in favor of the current anti-Mercy faction being well received by the rest of us is exceedingly slim, given that we already have something we like, very much so in fact. It is far, far more likely that such a rework will benefit only the anti-mercy faction, and as such, I personally find this position to be selfish in the extreme
I find my definition of anti-mercy to be quite objective and perhaps more importantly, a very clear and unambiguous definition
no the mercy mains are more like
i like how braindead she is but i wish it was enough to win
Well, she wasn’t broken before, so she should never have been broken with her original revert back to alpha, just to start with. Anyway, design comes first. If a character is bad design, and Mercy is bad design, balancing her is not solving her problems, but just disguising them. She is still freezed while rezzing, her ultimate is still lackluster and her E ability so busted that requires everything else to be weak. Her E ability is way more powerful than her ult yet. Her gamestyle is not fluid anymore… yet. Balancing her without making her overpowered again or entirely reworking her is close to impossible yet.
The chances of the anti-Mercy people who selfishly only care about their own fun and don’t want any type of constructive solution with the rest of the whole playerbase, who has seen their favourite hero taken away and transformed into an abomination, will never be satisfied, but fortunately, they are just the same 3-4 people writing over and over again. Basically, you and 3 more people. The rest, the pro-Mercys, are searching a solution in one or another way, regardless of their personal opinions about the character, trying to fix a problem that should never have existed, but now is a sad truth. Mercy community has been splitted in two. However, having constructive people who loves the character, and not just their own model like you, will lead us closer to find a solution. Hard? Yes, but that’s what happen when you break something that wasn’t broken and keep balancing a bad design. It’s harder to fix a house once built than when you are still building it.
Being constructive, generous and wanting to fix a problem that many people have, or trying to appease the part which is having fun trying to find a middle ground is being kind because you are giving and taking. Trying to impose your fun entirely over other people whether if they are having fun or not is selfish being you aren’t giving anything, just taking what you want. This is almost like a Sesame Street’s lesson.
Factually, your definition is 100% subjective and biased, entirely reliant of your personal and selfish point of view. I’m aware you are not precisely a pro-Mercy at all for a lot of people, quite the opposite.
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The developers (thankfully) saw things differently, and ultimately, they decide how each character is defined within the context of the game
I dont find anything about her design to be prolematic. The opposite, in fact - I find it works very well together as a whole
Factually, Mercy is not frozen while performing rez. The mercy player can indeed choose to have her remain motionless while rez’ing, but I wouldnt generally recommend it
I find her ultimate to be outstanding - impactful, balanced, engaging, fun - and arguably the very most versatile in the game
I dont find anything wrong with rez, if thats what you have mapped to E on your system.
As I see it, the many restrictions tied to it act to balance it in and of itself, such that its existence does not imo impact the power level of any of her other abilities.
I will again take it as assumed that your E is mapped to rez. With that assumed - while I do find rez to be an extremely powerful ability, I personally do not consider it to be stronger than Valkyrie. In fact, I believe valkyrie is considerably stronger.
I find playing her to be very fluid - quick, ease, smooth movement, arguably the best in the game
I find her to be well balanced in her current state, and to me, this is another reason why it’d be bets to leave her as she is
Factually, there are far more than 3-4 people who have declared that Mercy is fine/balanced/fun/etc in her current state on these forums alone. Heck, there are far more threads on that topic than just 3-4
Again, there are factually far far far more than 4 people who are pro-mercy and like her in her current state
The members of this anti-mercy faction you describe here are in agreement that Mercy should be changed, but are fragmented on what should change. Some anti-Mercys want mass rez back. Some anti-Mercys want rez in all forms removed from the game. Etc Etc. It isnt possible for Blizzard to satisfy the demands of this group even if they wished to (and they dont at the moment based on recent dev comments) because they as a group dont agree on what they want, and worse, some demands are mutually exclusive, like the two examples I just provided
Agreed
The anti-Mercy faction that wants Mercy changed, and the rest of us who do not want Mercy changed
This is how many of us view the anti-Mercy faction - trying to impose your idea of fun on us when we are already having fun with Mercy as she is
I dont find it subjective or biased at all - it is a working definition that clearly and unambiguously delineates one group from another
Factually, I am pro-Mercy - I like her as she is
I choose to defend her as she is
Interesting… show me when did they say that Mercy was overpowered or underpowered with mass rez. Just a hint “it’s disheartening to see your 6 ults countered by a single ult” doesn’t mean that it’s overpowered, that’s only talking about fun factor, and woops! Fun is subjective.
Also, yes, they decide the context, and Jeff said Mercy’s focus was mobility/healing, not rezzing/boosting/going dps.
Okay, but without any back up nor nothing, excuse me if I respectfully disagree, consider your opinion not based on fact, and decide to ignore it, since it’s not real feedback, just selfish talking.
Factually, she is exactly the same as if she was BEING freezed by a Mei, and factually the results are the same, so factually, she is freezed. Factually, I would appreciate you to stop spamming the forums with your semanthic empty talking.
Once more, I’ll ignore your point because of a blatlant lack of facts, back up or information of any type. Factually, you could even not play at all and say that just because you want. Please, show us your points, stop spamming your opinion without any reasoning behind.
Same as before, and you are avoiding my point, not answering it. If an ability is so busted that you can’t nerf it to a balanced state and need everything else to be nerfed as compensation, that’s poor and bad design. We don’t need Mercy’s ult being her E and viceversa.
Factually, nobody calls for valk to be used. Never. Factually, everyone calls for rez to be used. That’s the difference. Valk is so bland that your enemy team can even ignore it. Rez shouldn’t be ignored at all. Anyway, once more you brought no information, just your empty opinion with no information at all, so trying to talk with you is just pointless because you don’t want to talk indeed.
I could state that too exactly as you did (I would be lying, but I could). Please, give reasons or I’ll start assuming that you are either trolling or more possibly just spamming the forums with pointless and irrelevant posts.
Same as before.
Factually, I only see the same 3-4 extremely loud people writing over and over the same absurdities every day every hour, whereas there are thosands of people complaining about her.
If you want to show me that you are a lot, then please, do one of these:
1- Reach 10 megathreads filled of people talking.
2- You see Titanium’s post? That one which is the most liked post ever? Reach a superior number of likes.
Easy, huh?
Same as before.
I’ve edited your toxic and wrong talking. Factually, now it’s fine. Yes, having a consensus is very hard, and that’s because old and current Mercy have almost nothing in common. The revert never respected the playerbase, and the result is that we have different types of Mercy and Mercy players. At least, some of them want to fix the problem and aren’t spamming the forums with empty semanthic talking or opinions without any information or reasoning behind.
Well, despite you started well, you went in the wrong direction insulting the playerbase. The anti-Mercys are those who don’t care about the character or simply want it destroyed. Considering that you don’t want to make her good for the whole community, but just for your personal likes, you could fit there, according to different people.
Well, I’ll use your “anti-Mercy” definition, which is poisonous, but whatever… How I see the anti-Mercys is that bunch of people who don’t care about the character, just their personal and selfish point of view, and don’t want to reach a compromise for making her better, whereas the majority are trying to wonder how they can make her good design and fun for everybody, not just 3-4 people.
Factually, that’s your opinion, a radical won’t see him as a radical but as a moderated or fair person. A terrorist won’t see him as a terrorist, but as a freedom fighter. I’m sorry, but your definition is exactly the same valid as how a politician would define himself as “in the middle”. We know that such thing will almost always be false.
Edited. Now it’s the right definition.
Factually, you are not defending her, you are defending yourself. Factually, you are defending your own fun, prioritizing it over anyone’s. That selfish to the extreme.
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Um, I think she is fine. I think she both fun and impactful.
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Hmm.
Hmm.
I seem to have spotted a subtle, but crucial difference in what theyre saying
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Tbh I dont care if she is weak anymore. As long as they get rid of E-Rez and valk to give her something new and better I am fine.
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Ana’s healing stat doesn’t account her bonus healing from grenade. So I think Ana is pretty close if not on par with Mercy’s healing. If you want to get down to the real nitty gritty Mercy’s damage/damage boost is nowhere near close to Ana’s or Moira’s damage output.
I suspect this is due to damage boost being a better way of securing kills and its single target nature (outside ult).
A damage boosted target is more likely to secure kills in my opinion which means less trash damage. Ana and Moira on the other hand tend to do a lot of trash damage. Which feeds enemy ults.
That’s a pretty big assumption considering that both Ana and Mercy have the same amount of offensive kill assists. Meaning whether you are doing damage or damage boosting on either Mercy or Ana it’s going to have the same impact. The only difference being healing since Mercy’s is more consistent that it’s easier to stack up defensive assists. Which you can see is significantly different between Mercy and Ana.
Mercy was actually less fun before her rework.
- No E
- Could only Heal/DB
- No GA jump (press space to accelerate momentum)
- Pistol was a meme, but on occasion Valk can secure kills.
So really, Mercy gained a WHOLE LOT, but lost mass-res, which was as basic as the girls wearing yoga pants with their hair up in a ponytail, drinking some latte. Mass rez was literally press a Button = profit.
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This is one of the things that I dislike about Ana. She doesn’t has a lot of stats (and end cards).
Sure, Mercy lacks the utility like Ana and the survivability like Moira, but in return does she not has to worry about aiming, ammo, resource meters and barriers.
And yes, she lacks the ability to deal decent damage, but in return has she the best mobility of all the main healers.
This all seems like a fair tradeoff imo.
As I see it, you and I tend to be generally in agreement
…but…
I dont think Mercy lacks utility, between damage boost and rez which I see as the single strongest utility in the game
I also see her mobility and regen to provide a lot of survivability, on par with Moira at least albeit in a different fashion
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Which actually boost my point a little further. If they are having the same impact but mercy’s damage is lower doesn’t that translate to more trash damage on ana’s part?
Afterall ana gets offensive assist just as easily as mercy does due to how lenient the duration for time passed without healing a target is.
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