"Hide and rez wasn't a thing"

[anon63781830]

Good zarya never grav when zen is alive so she send flankers kill him first so she can ult, Mercy DON’T know when the enemy use his ult so she hide in the start of the big battle, zarya flankers will not find mercy anywhere which forced zarya to use her ult at the end which mercy revived them after.

[Dva-21640]

Read the beginning of the thread

And you kind of just proved my point too. If your issue is “Hide n Rez” then you should adamantly request changes to Mercy now, because you are actively encourage to move behind walls and use resurrect now.

[kioma-21990]

Yeah cause a 0secs mass rez that brings 5 people alive is the same as a 2sec solo res that leaves u not able to heal and vulnerable am i rite

[Dva-21640]

2sec solo res that leaves u not able to heal and vulnerable am i rite

No it’s actually more powerful. Mercy just had a 6 month meta where she had a 100% pickrate with the version you described, whereas before when she could revive allies from over 30 meters away in beta she was outclassed by Lucio and Zenyatta.

[Crestren-1121]

You know whats even more messed up? People here conveniently forgetting that you can ult RIGHT AFTER Mercy ults, which you can get another teamwipe.

I cant tell you how many times I got a triple kill because I just Riptired into a ressurected team.

[kioma-21990]

Lets see… the meta was double sniper right? Not only mercy had a higher healing output, she also had to res the widow in case she lost the duel vs the enemy widow. ThatsI the meta you’re describing

[Dva-21640]

Sigh, Moth Meta September 2017-January 2018 where she had the same Rez that she does now.

[kioma-21990]

As i said, she had a higher healing output that was also consistent (through barriers) she was better than ana and moira. I don’t thinkshe was picked because of her res, cause nade and sleep are arguably better butbut ana still wasnt picked as much

[SteveyHooves-1572]

The amount of times people told me to hide and rez with mercy is astounding. It was a thing for me maybe not for you but for it was to real for me.

[mdrake-1106]

I hated mercy 1.0, much prefer here the way she is.

[RevertMercy-1304]

HIDE AND REZ was a thing because IT’S THE BEST THING TO DO.

Hmm… Does that include “Hide and Team Wipe” as well?

Also… I would argue that tempo rezzes were in fact a lot more effective than hiding and rezzing, you held a bit more mid fight potential, and less time not being engaged in the fight. And let’s be honest as well here on that topic. Mercy still needs to hide to rez, and a lot of other heroes still need to hide in order to ult.

The “hide and res” argument should have never been a point of reference when giving her the the rework in the first place, but that’s just me.

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[GreyFalcon-11737]

Die early on Anubis/Hanamura on defence, Respawn, team dies, fly in for mass rez.

That happened a lot.

[Milo-22120]

Fair enough. I freakin hate 20 characters

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

@kioma-21990

HIDE AND REZ was a thing because IT’S THE BEST THING TO DO

It really isn’t.

@kioma-21990

Do u use grav when there’s only one enemy? No. Do u use transcendence when only one teammate is low? No. Do u use rez when only one teammate is dead? No. Not hiding and using rez on 1 teammate on an already lost fight (5v6) is just dumb, and I highly doubt it was a thing.

Numerical value is not everything. Besides, hiding sets your team up for failure.

Here’s the opposite of a TL;DR:

@Titanium-1686

“We think it’s wrong to tell a main-healing character to go off and hide somewhere and stop healing for some period of time.”

But it is fine for a main-damage character to go off and hide somewhere and stop dealing damage for some period of time, like many heroes currently do in preparation for an ultimate?

In actuality, you are right; just not for the reason you think you are. You are correct because hiding was maladaptive for the team’s chance of victory, and therefore was a bad way to play her. Allow me to explain this in an even more elaborate manner than my past few megaposts.

The success of a mass-Resurrection (4+ revived players) depended upon several factors:

• The Mercy’s ability to survive and execute the ability in the first place (the obvious one).
• The number of players alive on each team after the Resurrection.
• The number of available ultimates held by each team after the Resurrection (but primarily the enemy team).
• The shock value of Resurrect against the enemy (by far the most important factor for the post-rez fight).

The last factor is more important than the other two post-rez factors because it determines what other factors need to advantage the Mercy in order to have a good chance at a successful Resurrection. As the enemy team is given time to reorganize and fire their first attacks at the newly Resurrected team, they would already have a positioning advantage and the first shot… that is, if the team was expecting the Resurrection.

If the enemy team is expecting the Resurrection, they will have the post-rez advantages of the first shot and additional positioning time. Of course, this is a very bad situation to be in for the newly revived team, requiring some very strong advantages of their own to compensate and have a chance at winning the fight. In this case, they would need both the numbers advantage and the ultimate ability advantage.

If the enemy team isn’t expecting the Resurrection, then the Mercy could probably get by with either the numbers advantage or the ultimate advantage and still have a chance at winning, as the enemy team might not capitalize on their positioning and first shot opportunities as well as they should due to the shock value of Resurrect.

How does “Hide and rez” fit into all of this, you might ask? Hiding before the fight removes the possibility of having enough of those advantages against the enemy team in the post-rez fight, and therefore any chance of a victorious post-rez fight against any team of similar skill.

Hiding leaves the initial fight to a 5v6, the missing hero on the Mercy’s team being the main healer and primary source of sustain. Obviously, this is a huge advantage for the team of 6 in the first fight, allowing them to steamroll over Mercy’s team with likely zero casualties, and ultimate expenditures used only to counter any of the opposition’s ultimates. On top of this, the team of 6 also now collectively has 2000-3000 more ultimate charge from killing 5 players in addition to any healing dealt over the duration of that fight. Thus, it hands the ultimate ability advantage to the team opposing the Mercy.

The opposing team, assuming they are paying even the slightest attention to what is happening around them, would notice that the enemy is crumbling very easily for a supposed 6v6, raising suspicions as to whether or not the fight really is a 6v6, quickly leading to the realization that the enemy Mercy is missing from the fight. From this, only one conclusion could logically be drawn; she’s waiting to use Resurrect. There goes the ultimate’s shock value.

At this point, even if the team of 6 somehow managed to sustain 2 casualties in the initial fight, it won’t matter. If both teams entered the fight with the same number of ultimates, the team that does not have the hiding Mercy has at least two more ultimates than the other team (2000+ ultimate charge, Mercy’s team used Resurrect). One or two offensive ultimates is the absolute maximum a team needs to wipe a freshly-revived team when they are expecting the Resurrection, resulting in the revived team staring down the barrel of a gun they have no chance of avoiding.

In contrast, a Mercy who stays with her team keeps the fight at a 6v6, granting her team more sustain and forcing the enemy to expend ultimates to overpower them. Once the ultimates started firing, the mercy would distance themselves from the fight, evade, or take cover, laying down pistol fire or amplifying damage rather than attempting to heal those for whom healing would be useless. As a result, the enemy was less likely to realize that Mercy has Resurrect (the enemy was comparatively difficult to kill, removing the prompt to think about why they were crumbling easily in the first place), Mercy’s team was more likely to pick off a few enemies, and Mercy has successfully baited more ultimates from the enemy team. As a result, her team has more advantages and fewer disadvantages in the post-rez fight.

The only cost to staying with the team was an increased chance of being picked off before being able to revive the team, which just follows the same risk choice explained in the Resurrect section; if taking more controllable risks now helps to mitigate the high risk later, then taking those smaller risks now is safer than not in the long run.

Consequently, reviving a team after hiding typically resulted in a second wipe, while staying with the team until it was unsafe to do so was more likely to yield favorable results. That is why it was “wrong to tell a main-healing character to go off and hide somewhere” . It was a bad tactic, as it usually backfired.

Rather than letting the issue resolve itself by fixing the SR exploit that ultimately led to the tactic’s rise in the first place, the developers decided to remove Resurrect as an ultimate entirely. They changed the thing that wasn’t the problem, and ended up pissing off the playerbase.

Sound familiar?

Anyway, I’ve used this example many times before, but removing Resurrect as an ultimate because some players abandoned their team leading to a second wipe is equivalent to removing Rocket Barrage as an ultimate because Pharah players too often blew themselves up with it. There’s no need to intervene; the tactic will die out on its own, so long as the ranking system isn’t feeding it.

Ironically, the rework ended up only replacing one tactic of hiding with another. This time, however, the is no drawback to it, making the tactic beneficial. Valkyrie is best used by pressing Q and then flying the hell away, barely staying within beam range of the team. Doing this minimizes risk, but compromises no rewards. A Mercy playing closer to her team in Valkyrie is not helping her team any more than a Mercy 29 meters from her team, and is only exposing herself to enemy fire. Consequently, staying as far as possible from the fight for Valkyrie’s full duration is the way to go.

[MercyOTP-2885]

Thing is tho, rezzing 1 teammate was sometimes the right call, proper usage of Ult Rez was situational and required actual thinking. Hide and Rez against any team with half a brain usually just resulted in another team wipe. For the vast majority of the time, it was the worst thing to do and the effectiveness of tempo rez’s was greatly highlighted and exaggerated with the initial release of Mercy 2.X.

Additionally, people aren’t really saying that “hide and mass rez wasn’t a thing.” This kind of play-style was usually forced on the Mercy player by their teammates under the illusion that it actually worked when in the vast majority of cases, it didn’t.

[Tom1315-2706]

You know what would fix mercy?

A rework…

Say goodbye to rez as it doesn’t fit as a ult as it’s too unfun to play against and it’s not fitting as a ability as it’s still unfun to play against but it’s also unfun to play with.

Valkyrie was a mistake even though I love it but a ultimate that kinda just improves existing gameplay is obscelete and boring. It’s meant to be a playmaker not a mmmmm this is cool I remove all my weaknesses but I can’t really out heal or outdamage anyone sooo.

[NanoByte-11180]

Even mercy couldn’t rez the entire team 100% of the time, if you wanted to pull of team rez then it requires your entire team to die at the same time or else they respawn after the timer goes off.

Usually mercy could rez 3 people max but in the most part it was tempo rez

[PokimaneThic-1535]

If mercy get caught by grav that mean = 0 rez

you’re forgetting 1 thing, mercy could fly out of grav back when she had mass rez.

[AngryCats-1999]

Hide and res is a thing now.
Was thing.
It still exists. Wasn’t the point of the rework to get rid of it tho?

and sitting in spawn on hanamura B for several minutes.

That’s not hiding to res, that’s throwing

[AngryCats-1999]

Sure “Hide and Rez” was a thing…

But guess who never seen it in any games they played because they didn’t play comp?

F’N ME!

Trust me I was more shocked when I heard it was a things because…was it really that hard to counter? You’re in a 5v6 without a main healer…did you really waste your 3-4 offensive ults just to take out a team without big heals?

Then again that’s me and that’s how I always thought of it. I mean the few times I went against an enemy team in Arcade/Custom and they used Mass Rez, never seemed to bother us since we always tried to save at least one offensive ult per fight.

Then again…there was nothing to gain in arcade/custom/bots for “Big Rez” was there?

I DID play comp and I never saw it happen. Ever. I wonder if the people doing it were on different servers.