…Seagull says buff F tier and everyone loses their minds
How blind and illogical can people get?
For your information, according to Overbuff (which we know is not as reliable as before, but good for the general picture), in the last week alone, Reaper has had 0.04% pickrate in GM.
Do you know how bad that translates as? Well, in last week, Bastion has had 0.15% pickrate.
Lett that sink in for a moment. Bastion, of all heroes, has almost 4 times Reaper’s pickrate.
Reaper’s weakness against armor has long been an inherent problem. He cannot bust tanks as he as supposed to, and unlike heroes like Tracer, he does not have the mobility to flank and take out supports. His entire kit forces him to play one role, one role which the very nature of his guns prevent him from performing effectively. Certainly not as effective as some other dps heroes who could do the same job at much safer distances. Reaper has long been recognized as a weak, tier F hero since Beyblade (which was 11 seasons ago) died. Shadowstep is arguably one of, if not THE worst, skill in the entire game.
And now Seagull makes a comment on how the worst hero in the entire game needs buffs, and we get posts like these:
Just absolutely loving the blind hate. Seagull can say that 1+1=2 and people will still go nuts about how he’s gonna ruin maths
Oh btw, for the record, Jayne has ALSO once said that he would be very curious how Reaper would perform if he could ignore armor effects i.e. treat armor as normal white health, so it’s not just Seagull’s opinions.
F Tier heroes are very strong and oppressive in certain circumstances but extremely weak in most. Straight buffs won’t fix them. For example, giving Bastion higher damage will make Junkertown unplayable but he’ll still be awful on a map like Illios. Some heroes designs are meant to be “niche” and reworks are the only real way to fix them
I actually thought about his reaper buff suggestion to bypass armor.
And it kind of makes sense.
It might not be the solution, it might not be balanced, but at the very very least, it’s a testworthy suggestion.
I honestly could care less about his pickrate in GM or bronze.
But the explanation makes sense. Reaper’s a counter tank hero. You buff his damage and he becomes a problem to normal heroes as well. You give him mobility and it makes mobile heroes irrelevant. You give him anti armor and he becomes a tank problem without changing his effect on normal characters. That seems like a decent idea if you ask me.
Nah, you get posts blaming seagull because apparently what seagull says, he devs do, as far as these people are concerned
The problem isn’t with “niche”, it’s with characters not being able to perform in their niche, and how limited the “niche” is.
For instance, you can’t just design Bastion and say “his niche is doing well on Junkertown with 5 other people supporting him”. That just doesn’t make sense.
Likewise, if Reaper’s niche is tank busting, and not only do a bunch of other heroes do that better, Reaper himself isn’t even effective in that area, then where does that leave him?
Well to be fair, seagull has influenced the game in a way that a lot of people despise. He may have a point, but I would hate to have him have anymore influence in the game.
Okay I actually don’t quite get what you are saying here.
So…you think Seagull has a point, but you don’t want his point to carry through and influence the game because Seagull happened to voice his opinions on Mercy and she got changed very quickly?
The fact that Mercy was changed very quickly after Seagull voiced his opinions actually prove the devs DIDN’T listen to him for the change. The change needed new animations, new ability icons, and tons of balancing patches (which admittedly they did extremely poorly), generally a lot of time. They can’t just watch Seagull’s video today and instantly ship an update the next based on what Seagull said.
So basically, because of a unproven correlation between Seagull’s opinions and a previous disastrous balancing attempt that was laregly the developer’s fault, you think it is better for his argument (which you admit to have a point) to go unheeded.
Do please help me out here because i don’t understand
Unfortunately, because he makes good videos and good points. And he’s from Canada.
My point being, if all he’s gonna say is “buff reaper” then cool. If he gets into anymore detail than that, then people aren’t going to hear it. He’s influenced the game in ways that people have strongly resented, and if he gets into specifics he should just leave it to the dev team. He complains about the game all the time anyway so it’s not like any of the changes he’s caused have satiated him
Reaper mains are lowkey as zealous as Mercy ones, except without the self-awareness. I sympathize but pretending like we haven’t chewed through this topic a thousand times already is a bit much.
As always, Reaper’s skill curve is absolute garbage. If you want him to be relevant at higher skill tiers, it will take a complete overhaul of his kit. Ironically, the devs only do that when it’s not really needed so he’ll get another token buff that won’t change anything.
Also, those that would prefer for Reaper to stay as is are indeed not going to like said overhaul. I’ve become a bit of a Sym player since the latest rework and really enjoy playing her now but i still realize that comes at the cost of old Sym mains losing what they loved. To dismiss such concerns is quite selfish tbh.
I think I remember reading somewhere (but it could totally be wrong so take this with a grain of salt) that armor was created in the first place primarily because of Reaper and Tracer. That being said, that was back in Year 1 and a lot has changed since then so I’d be willing to experiment a bit. I don’t think it’s the damage that’s the problem, though, but rather that, for someone who needs to be in close range to do his job, he doesn’t have a lot at his disposal to get in that close range.
Reworking Shadow Step is certainly a possibility. But the idea I had in mind was that they could kinda combine Shadow Step and Wraith Form into one ability, and give Wraith Form free movement in all directions. Kinda give it that “Recall” cinematic feel. Then, since his E spot would be free, it can be whatever Reaper mains think would fit. I personally think a smoke bomb would be pretty cool. But I’m not a Reaper main so I don’t know what would be good for him. I do think the Wraith Form + Shadow Step would be good, but I am not sure what would fill the open E slot.
All mains are zealous once their hero gets gutted. Except
Reaper didn’t get "gutted’ because he was trash to begin with
There are like 80k Mercy mains and around 8 Reaper mains lol
I understand the issue with Reaper’s skill curve. In a way I see it as kind of similar to Bastion–a low mobility, high short range damage character.
Problem being, even Bastion is now more viable than Reaper. If a Reaper player prefers him in this state…well, let’s just say I can’t believe anyone would like a 0.04% pickrate at grandmaster. It’s less about being selfish and more about whether these opinions are in the minority, which I believe (with no evidence other than that people want their hero viable) is the case
You are right, the armor design was quoted in an interview between a game designer and some streamer.
It still baffles me though, to be honest. They designed a character with the niche of tank busting, and then they designed it so that EVERY tank other than Roadhog and Zarya innately counter the tank counter.
No wonder Reaps is performing so poorly. The whole niche of his character is countered in the first place by the heroes he is supposed to counter
Honestly, at this point I’d much rather have 2 wraith forms and no E ability than wraith form and shadowstep
It also doesn’t help that there have been disagreements on what Reaper’s niche even is. Some say he is a tank buster. Others say he is a close range duelist. Some might even say he’s more of a backline defender/peeler. Maybe he’s all three, we don’t really know because he can’t really do any of those things efficiently. Not enough to make him stand out, anyways.
Bastion’s problem is the lack of mobility. His skill ceiling is fine, especially since the spread change.
You’re ignoring the context in which i called it selfish. It would take a complete rework of Reaper’s kit to make him viable in higher skill tiers and that means fundamentally changing his playstyle. People might think they want this now but there’s always a significant portion of a hero’s playerbase that won’t be happy after. Particularly because the devs do these reworks quite carelessly and often ignore/change key aspects of what made those heroes liked in the first place.
Okay, I might be a little bit rambling here, so do excuse me for that.
First, Bastion’s problem is certainly lack of mobility, but that is ALSO what Reaper is facing due to his insanely short range and effectively useless Teleport. May I ask why you think Bastion’s skill ceiling is fine whereas Reaper’s skill ceiling is low? I just want more details on that for more detailed discussion
I disagree it would take a rework to make Reaper viable in higher skills. I don’t claim to be a good game balancer, but I think at least allowing him to perform his niche would be an excellent start. I personally do not want a rework either.
I don’t need Reaper to become a higher damage Tracer. I just want Reaper to have a job that he excels in. And that is rather lacking at the current moment
Trust me mate, I used to say exactly the same thing.
Up until recently in a interview or something (I can’t remember what it was, so you will just have to trust me on that), the devs said “Reaper excels in dealing with big targets”, which is kind of obvious.
I get that it doesn’t exclusively mean tanks, but it also doesn’t help that 5/7 heroes with the biggest hitboxes counter Reaper by just being at a healthy hp i.e. with armor
Also, isn’t saying “his niche is point blank damage” also superimposing his role? And does his 5m niche justify the remaining 45 meters where he is absolutely useless?
I can freely admit I don’t have the link since i just play random clips while working and multitask. Heck, I can’t even be absolutely sure it was an interview and not just two randoms acting a discussion. I DO believe it has been said on the forums before (in the “Reaper flows and ebbs with the meta” bullcrap if I recall correctly).
I also understand that kinda kills any credibility, but we can still ask ourselves:
What is Reaper’s niche?
Is that niche too niche (e.g. Bastion’s niche is Junkertown apparently)?
Is Reaper performing AT his niche?
Is Reaper performing better than others at his niche?