I don’t think anyone thinks that. They just at least want 60hps back.
Guess you are misinformed then.
Mercy was basically not relevant in high ranks but was broken due to the SR system abuse.
She was incredibly annoying but she was nowhere op like some of you think. She had a pretty normal pick rate and was just op in low ranks where people have never heard of the tern “Ult economy”. She was not even close to half of Ana’s pick rate. She was cancerous but somewhat balanced, but frustrating to play against.
No, it was disliked because the games turned into a hide 'n seek where you have to be the first team to kill the other teams Mercy.
If I recall Blizzard didn’t like it because it promoted a kind of playstyle they didn’t want (the let-your-teammates-die one).
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That’s basically what I said. It was reworked because it was frustrating and encouraged a bad playstyle because the SR system could easily be abused back then.
The playstyle of hide and res that developed over the time of mass res was so frustrating that everytime if there was a Mercy on the enemy team, every fight had tk be won twice which made it “frustrating and disheartening to play against”.
Ideally, you want your teammates to die from ults, so other team has none when you bring them back.
And, since Mercy never received mid-fight ability, it’s still beneficial in many cases to let teammate die to resurrect them later. Since it would be faster, than waiting for them to be fully healed.
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Talking about reaching high SRs with cheap tactics that actually win games is one thing.
I’m talking about reaching high SRs with a low winrate, which is exactly what happened to a lot of Mercy players who used the “hide and res” tactic in Seasons 3-5.
I’m gonna have to butt in here - yes, there was an SR bug/exploit that boosted a lot of Mercy players to ranks they shouldn’t have been in, but there were genuinely good GM Mercy players in the Mass Res era, even if they were rather few and far between.
The Mercy players who actually belonged in those ranks (Eevee, Vale, etc) were well known for pushing “tempo rezzes”, even when Mass Res was the ultimate. You didn’t see them hiding a lot. And it was pretty powerful, because these people knew how to utilize Mercy’s healing to charge her ultimate as fast as possible to use it several times in one match.
The only thing really holding Mercy back in those days was a lack of midfight (some kind of burst heal or other utility), lack of survivability (GA was much more limited and you couldn’t glide past targets or superjump), and the unfortunate design of Mass Res that encouraged low and mid rank players to “hide” and let their team die (Press Q once and it’s all done, no cast time, no LOS requirement, very big range, no value for teammates still alive). Mass Res could’ve been changed while still keeping it as the ult.
And damage boost is not exactly “extra” utility either - it comes at the cost of Mercy being unable to heal and deal damage at the same time like every other support can. I’ve always seen it less as utility and more as a replacement for her damage - the pistol is only really there if your team isn’t.
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Yeah damage boost on demwnad might sound powerful but can’t be relied on too much if you second healer isn’t a main healer.
You’re absolutely right. I probably should have worded that better. The sentence before it I was specifically talking about how her viability in high elo was incredibly limited due to how restrictive mass res made her game play. So rather, I was trying to say the only reason we saw mercy’s pick rate spike into meta territory before the rework was due to the sr exploit. That isn’t to say there wasn’t Mercy players before then who played her to top GM/top 500.
To be fair though, personal performance past diamond was a thing then. People could get away with getting into higher elo’s for genuinely being good at there heroes rather then relying on win streaks and the rng of who your team mates are. Ironically, personal performance past diamond was taken out of the game due to the SR exploit to make sure something like that didn’t happen again.
Also i posted an entire article that explains why tempo res wasn’t nearly as powerful as you’re trying to make it out to seem. As an ultimate it still hurt any chance she had at becoming viable to the meta. No amount of changes to mass res as an ult would have fixed that. It was the most telling ultimate in the game. You either killed the mercy first for last because you knew she had res. And if she did get off a tempo res of 1-2 people, the enemy was beginning to roll anyway. The article has a great chart that showed how impactful mass res was when used to tempo res even during a pro setting.
Well lets see the link then ? Also
Is a meme term ususally not positive about bug abusing.
At that time there was no added hero with higher damage than Hanzo rework, which is gone now, only tank and heaeler damage has gone up.
Well it was originally not made as an e-sport or had a competetive mode to revolve around. Now it is both, so that argument is completely invalid dude.
No hero has the “right to be meta” especially not overtuned heroes that are meta cause they are too easy and too good.
As i proved with the stats she was still heavily picked in double shields. Your biased opinion of when or why metas should apply to heroes are both irrelevant and uninformed and statistically wrong.
That is why she should have more value, cause her input level is so low. That is the point of a introduction hero.
No one cares why or how she is played, she is played in 33% of all games played. So stop being biased. Don´t like her playstyle ? Leave or pick another hero.
More uninformed biased opinion, the stats are evident, you making up your own conclusions is completely pathetic. You even point out, why Mercy should never see play in diamond or above ranks right here:
Statistically wrong and factually a lie.
They talked about her being meh, not garbage, since in Double shield she wasn´t use a lot in pro play, she shouldn´t be either way, the way she functions.
Again 0 source to your claim
Just don´t buff characters that do not need it. Her stats are beyond perfectly balanced atm.
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Gator, the main tank from the GOATS team has confirmed that it is completely false about people like you calling GOATS “The only counter to Double sniper” or in general that it was made to counter it. They didn´t even use that comp cause they had to, it was what they were best at playing.
We don´t need more of this false information about double sniper and how “OP” it was, when it died with Zarya´s grav getting nerfed and Mercy getting changed.
This was also proven false, when burst heroes equalled out in pickrate as soon as mitigation and healing was toned down immensely, never have there been more sustained hero damage DPS played, that flourish cause the new supports and tanks are no longer making the game unplayable with the increasing power crept kits.
So if we go by your absurd logic Moira must be nerfed to trash then since she gets more value than Mercy, has a higher pick rate and is easier to play than Mercy.
Just because the game is now focused around esports didn’t make it unaccessible for players of all skill levels.
All easy to play character still exist and have better pick rates than Mercy does. So how is my argument invalid, cuz you tell me so?
No I don’t think so.
Also, her being played in roughly 30% of all matches in ladder doesn’t means she is good. She had those pick rates before her rework too, means she must have been perfectly balanced then too, right? No.
These numbers are only as high as they are due to her large fan base and not because she is actually such a good hero.
Just because Mercy doesn’t require mechanical skill doesn’t means she has to be kept away from being meta ever again.
Brig and Moira are just as easy as her and have way better pickrates than her.
Not to mention Lucio who has been allowed to be meta since season 1. He doesn’t require much mechanical skill either, he requires decision making like Mercy but if far more forgiving while providing value just by existing.
Why is he meta then?
Just calling me biased over and over again Dienst make you more convincing btw. I state the obvious things which you guys want us to shut up about.
If anyone is biased that’s you.
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“Absurd logic”
You mean the balancing aspect called skill=reward, that all successful e-sports thrive on ?
Yes Moira has been too good and too easy as well, is she easier than Mercy ? Debateable, both of them require few braincells to perfect and plenty of OTP´s play each character flawlessly, when they become meta.
But she did require nerfs and yeah she does need more balancing in terms of effort=reward, same with Brig still.
No, an e-sport doesn´t have to to be hard for players of all skill levels, but it will ultimately fail as an e-sport (which OW has struggled with exactly) in the times, when effort=reward and Skill=reward was tremendously low. Moth meta, Goats meta and more, saw some of the biggest declines for the game, which is heavily influenced by how poorly designed the flaws of the metas were.
Which easy to play characters ? Outside of Moira and Rein, she is the highest played “easy to play” character. Not a single DPS is close to her, several, brig is way down etc. As i said she is 5th most played. So where are you pulling this clearly inaccurate information ?
Cuz you are clearly arguing with your heart, which is so clearly a totally useless and biased opinion.
You wanna show some statistical evidence to support that ?
Even with that BS claim, she is popular yes, but that is still no reason to play her if she was bad. Not only that we can check her overall stats and she is above 50% winrate overall, so again you are not looking at the stats.
There is a difference between metas. In low ranks certain heroes are meta cause they are easy (moira, Mercy, Brig ETC) which is cause of the skill gap of the levels. What is not okay is these heroes being so good that the best have no choice but to play them either. That is a flaw and brought some of the most detrimental problems to the game (Moth Meta, Brig, To some extent Rein ATM).
Mercy 5%+ pickrate
Brig 2%
Yeah, you are just lying out right.
But no neither of those should be meta at high rank either, neither should they have the insane stats that they have (Brig, she is OP, Violet clearly showcased that).
This argument is so beyond mind avoided, that i don´t even belive it, “Wow, Mercy had a high pickrate, back when the game had 2-3 less supports” Insane stuff.
This is more pandering by you to avoid and not talk about the facts and it is ridiculous to see.
Lucio just saw absolutely 0 play in all of Double shield pretty much…
No he isn´t:
1.His healing isn´t guaranteed, is heavily limited by range and is blocked by LOS and has a low value (Outside of ability usage). His selfsustain is nearly lower than Mercies, but can´t be interrupted like hers can (though hers start again after 1 sec, unlike 3 sec for shields normally). His mobility require input, wall riding and generally chaining a lot of it together for effect, his boop and gun needs good aiming, he ins´t hard, but he is far harder than Mercy baseline.
Litterally hold m1 you already doing this, 1 click and you´re suited. You can even alternate between m1 and m2 and do most your job, without much interaction. So don´t go throwing that on other heroes.
He wasn´t just 2 months ago and usually he is meta a lot cause he is the only hero with speed boost (WOW, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT? ).
I call you biased, cause you obviously are, multiply times i have pointed out your obvious lies, that you can look up on Overbuff alone. After this most of your arguments boil down to “i don´t think she should fit in this meta, or she should fit in this meta”. That isn´t your decision to make, neither does it matter.
After all this you still call a hero bad/not meta, when she is still one of the most played heroes in the game, which a hero can´t be that bad, otherwise people will quit playing her. See torb/symm and the like for reference of their playability and playerbases in the past.
If anyone has issues with this forums primary language. It is you, yes.
You know Lucio was pretty much played 24/7 with Moira in double shield till she got nerfed and Bap got buffed.
It was Lucio Moira all day long.
And why should easy characters not be meta in high ranks? Just because they don’t have those flashy flick and aim moments?
And you are really relying too much on overbuff tbh. Mercy can seem as statistically balanced as she wants to, when you play her you watch you team die due to you low healing. She pumps out more healing overall, but she lacks that personal impact which even many of the professional players have finally admitted.
Besides, Brig is not op lmao. She is finally balanced, no raid boss while still providing great utility and great heals that come close to Mercy’s. She can peel for her team but is heavily reliant on her tanks and other healer as well.
Additionally, Moira is also way worse than she was on release and she was considered bad in higher ranks then, due to he rlack of utility. Why is she so op now? Because she can keep up the tanks through the existing power creep in the game and through the trash damage randomly flying around? Or because she can evade and duel enemies unlike Ana? She has been like that 2 years ago too, and her pick rate was laughably back then.
And I want to add, that you probably think that we want Mercy absurdly broken again or sonething. We just want a bit more healing, you can ask pretty much every pro suuport player, they will tell you the same.
Res is OK, Guardian Angel is perfect, Valk is fine because it’s so fast charging. Her damage boost is inconsistent due to the change of how damage amplification works. They have basically made damage boost even more skilless because due to the inconsistency it encourages hard pocketing more than before. Her healing is pretty consistent but lacks the ability to sustain high health pools. Taking 8-12 seconds to heal a single tank as a supposedly strong single target healer doesn’t make any sense to me.
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It was ok with multiple resurrects. Not when it was reduced to one. As resurrects were often used to compensate for insufficient healing - even when it was 60 hps, sometimes it just wasn’t enough.
And yes, Moira is OP, because she both can provide somewhat consistent, decent heals(something Mercy used to do, but not anymore) and still have survivability to match.
For majority of community, healer with consistent, decent healing and survivability is all they need. Not some utility no one can make use of anyway. Especially offensive utility, since surviving is bigger problem.
I think Moira is actually not op at all. She is a really great main healer and flanker counter, but she really just carries the player. I wish they could change that a bit but other than that I am OK with her.
Mercy however is almost perfect, just a little bit more healing, just that little bit more and we can main heal again.
Come on 60hps won’t break her, we have the experimental card to test drastic changes. Let’s test it, if it’s op just don’t implement it. Simple as that, we gotta start somewhere.
It’s likely to drop Moira out of picture, if Mercy gets her 60 hps back.
Developers had change of plans, so Moira had to become go-to healer for your average game. And, as always, only one was supposed to stay.
As testing of 1/3/2 showed up, Mercy thrives in such conditions. Allowing her to heal tanks will let her succeed in 2/2/2 as well.
You see, one of main reasons to never let Mercy be meta again is related to her preferred comps - spread out, where her GA is major advantage.
You may ask “Cleo, what’s bad about spread out comp?” Well, it doesn’t make for epic fights - whole game is just a bunch of 1v1s all over the map. It also puts all other healers at disadvantage, as their abilities require teammates to be all together for maximum effect. Mercy simply doesn’t have anyone else, that thrives in such comps, to be used with her.
And if we look at it now, Mercy isn’t even all that good.
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Of course she isn’t. You don’t bother with healing, if it’s not going to save anyone, you use damage boost.