I’ll admit, it took me some time to “Get it”, and once you see it, its frustrating as all heck watch a team run randomly even on voice and not coordinate with the tanks on space…
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That is the problem of 75% of the tanks in this game.
So you are not the only one.
Space means, space you kind of control. Where your team are rather save standing there. So for example on a rein if the enemy has a good sniper your create space by holding up your shield, people standing just behind you are then save of the sniper. But when an enemy rein, reaper, mei etc walks through your shield this space is gone. Your shield become useless. But because of hammer you again create space around you. People getting hit by the hammer will stop focusing mostly on the thing they were doing and run away or focus on the tank (and then you need a good off tank to help you, like a zarya bubble, or a matrix and then you can even hold space when a reaper attacks you)
But this can also be done with for example a winston: diving the good widow will create space since he cant one shot people for a while anymore. Diving an enemy rein of course will not create space since rein will always control that space.
So picking tanks you always need to ask the questions :
- for who will you create space (a widow and a tracer will never stand behind your shield).
- What are the biggest thread, and how can you take the objective. So if the enemy has a very good widow, you create lots of space by taking him out of the fight for a while (but this also means your team need to be able to do something with this time , if they cant kill the rein/zarya etc with for example a mccree and a soldier in that time. Your winston pick is bad)
Creating space you need to do on attack, you need to create space so people can move through a choke rather safely. (i see lots of tanks standing still in the choke waiting for their shield to break, waiting for the dps to do something , if your dps are all close range without shield breakers(or if you always will loose the shield break war -> rein vs orisa) you need to move through the enemy shield, preferable before your shield break and start doing brawl damage. So create space with your hammer). But when you create space always keep track what your team is doing. If you move forward with your shield up while your team is still trying to kill a flanker behind you, the space you created will be useless.
Or when moving a payload you need to make sure you control at least the space around and just in front of the payload so it keeps moving. (I see lots of tanks standing far behind the payload again waiting for others to create space, while it is their job. Or moving to far in front of the payload when the enemy has flankers)
Taking an objective is of course removing all enemies of the objective.
On defense you need to hold space. Lots of tanks make the mistake playing defense the same as on attack. You dont have to create new space. If you still do you have a big chance (at least if you dont run a 6 stack) that to many players will stay at the payload/objective). So you take a big risk. Since your only job on defense is staying alive holding that space. But i see lots of tanks on defense going full attack mode (especially win your team has won a few group fights and get to over confident) Then dying away from objective and leaving a few people left to defend the objective/payload without main tank.
Also i see lots of orisa’s at a point standing just next to the objective. This means for your team if they want to contest/hold the point they have to step out of your safe space onto the point
And you dont have to hold the space by standing on the payload or objective all the time. Most of the time defense has a big advantage because they can use chokes or corners. Be close to health pack/save rooms for dva ults etc…
But even the payload will give you cover when needed.
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Swap off widow, you are a support!
True, once you learn gamesense it’s hard to adapt to a state of lower gamesense. I spent all day playing in 3.5/3.6 yesterday then I hopped on my smurf with my friend and it just felt so different at 3k. I did practically nothing as the flow of the game was so different
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And you set up in a great spot and despair as your crazy dps run past you to die repeatedly.
So you think, screw it, and pick a non barrier tank and try to dps.
This season’s gold feels like being back in bronze, in terms of utter lack of game sense or teamwork.
At least in prior seasons I could swap to a 4th or 5th dps if my tank skills not being utilised.
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I ended up highest in my tank role.
While i am a dps main with lots more hours on dps heroes then i have on tanks.
Mostly more because my game sense(understanding what a tank should do and what tank is the best for this) then my technical skill or experience on tank heroes…
Shows me how bad most players tank knowledge is ( basic knowledge of the game) and why most dps players dont know how to play in team fights/with tanks.
I had many games playing dps like a mcree. Staying patiently and safe behind my rein. Getting through a choke with an orisa just passed it. And my rein just stopped moving in that choke… What is he thinking my fang the hammer will destroy the orisa shield faster then their ashe and hanzo? Press 1 more second on W and we are through his shield, you can hammer and i can stun right click them… lets go!!! So frustrating, mostly resulting i go charge them with my mccree and dying, since i am not that patient to wait till his ults are up or what he is waiting for.
Look at higher tier games or OWL. Most will always run a lucio with a rein for speed to get faster through a shield. While in lower tiers Reins even stop moving when they see an orisa. Even when the shield and orisa are just standing passed the choke and it is just one short W click away to get through the shield and you can start hammering around you… Especially on hanamura or volksaya… So many do this… even without a mei in the enemy team.
But when playing rein. Most of the times when i play rein and i push right on top of the orisa when they stand so close to the choke. I will be the only one who push through while the rest stay at the choke, still shooting at the shield (even the ana trying to heal me and the off tank)
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lololol days. He said days. It’s been the mantra of the forum for months. Weeks. Decades, even.
I think it’s always been like this.
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Yeah. If there’s no teamwork and constant feeding, best hero is one that can easily get a quad kill to swing the hugely uneven fights you end up in.
I’m not sure how one much skill a player needs to exhibit to carry a game with all other things being equal.
I imagine Blizzard has those stats. I think if we are saying a person has a 60% win rate, he would have to plays at least 10 games to effectively gain roughly 30 sr. So over a period of roughly 150 games could one move up a whole rank if their win rate does not go down. Characteristically speaking you are technically where you need to be if you are 50/50.
You a lost sr because ur not a dops moira. U can’t count on ur team to do everything
(seriously not trolling)
I feel you my guy, ana isnt doing too hot rn. low-mid tier gold the dps is crazy. You have guys going their fav hero one trick and not switching off. We all have that one widow that is one-shot no kill, but stays widow. I see alot of DPS pulling out heroes that arent damage consistent.
For example if we have a widow, you cant be a doomfist and play subpar. You gotta really be pulling out plays. I stopped playing support cuz of that, now playing DPS and winning every match on heroes like soldier, mei and then using junkrat for that cancerous sigma play
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I will say that good tanks are important (this is coming from a tank main). If the tanks aren’t making proper space and making an effort to stay alive, your team can’t actually win the game. That said, support has the least amount of direct effect on the game. If you can manage to keep your entire team alive 75% of the time but they can’t score a single kill, you just flat out will not win the game. It is literally the luck of the draw and if your team mates are just worse than the other team you just will not win no matter how good you are.
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Same here. Most of the time i have to Moira it out hard. Healing tanks and DPSing the living hell out of enemy key players. Healing DPS is only possible in the rare moments they are not critical out of position or died instantly when trying 1vs6 the enemy team. Its really rare.
I can switch to mercy only in the rare cases where i see a true DPS carry. Then i pocket the living hell out of him. But lets be real for 33% true killers out there, there are 66% hot garbage who would be better playing tank or support and actual help winning the fights. Instead of the zero kill widows, or the suicide Doomfists, the slow moving tracers, the “i need healing” genjis, the “Wait we had a Sombra?” Sombras, The “i can shoot pharah,i swear” Junkrats.
We all know them.
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Where is the line? At what point will you be satisfied in the rank you are at
This is one reason I’m trying to pick up Baptiste. He’s a very solid hitscan hero if you can aim (which I can’t…).
Saw ML7 on him rocking 4 golds every game in gold elo.
Happily enough had a Soldier on my team last game today. I could tell he was good as he was constantly filling the kill feed. Ended up with 69% KP after 2 rounds Busan.
Turns out he was a master dps in season 3, but dropped down to low plat playing tank and support…
He said he found them more fun.
Anyway, he gave me his aim settings and I’m going to try them out.
I’m also going to practice like heck in the aim workshop so that I can kill enemy Pharahs if my dps can’t.
Noticed it too since role queues. I really hope it is just because it is beta. But when I go dps I always get 2 of Moria, Ana and Zen and all they do is focus on dps. I go heals next match and have the worst dps and refused to switch. Had a junkrat tearing it up yet my team decided to sit as honzo and torb doing nothing. It was on Jibralter and Pharah can easily counter him. But nope they refused to switch.
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I guess everyone is right.
Need to flex within your role the make up for the deficiencies. It’s no different then changing to dps with self healing or tank with self healing when we werent role locked or convincing the other player to switch roles.
If it’s dps moira or zen, this what needs to occur.
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With role queue, it’s quite safe to assume that when you get bad tanks in your team. These guys aren’t tank mains.
Tank mains have been battle harden with 17 seasons, even if they are play at their rank, they know what they are doing.
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look, a mercy-main … the support which is getting carried the most with decent teammates. who is your dps buddy?