Genji has been trash for over 2 years

General Discussion
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No, that is the only stats you want to go by because you think they support your argument. They don’t. But, lets address the context.

GM is 1% of the players. That is it. So, balancing around GM is stupid.

In GM he was still a solid middle of the pack. Literally THE middle. So, not a trash hero even there. More than that, he was sitting at 2.9% pick rate. The % if all dps heroes were evenly picked would be less than 2%. So, he was actually picked more than the average. Again, not a trash pick.

When you get up to GM it favors team play and synergy more than individual hero strength. Genji is a very strong solo hero, but his design is not one that really supports a lot of team interaction. And, even with that major negative he was STILL middle of the pack. This indicates just how strong he was.

After he is now the top pick in ALL ranks, and in GM. And GM games are all being built around him (for and against). And that is still with him basically not working with the team. It is all about him just killing everyone. This is an indicator of how ridiculously OP he actually is.

So, you are right when you say context matters. You just are not actually taking context into account.

Thing is, it doesn’t. Nano helps all the heroes. The stronger the hero, the more powerful Nano is. Nano is multiplicative. Nano does not prop up weak heroes play, it encourages the strongest heroes play. Genji got Nano a lot BECAUSE he was already strong.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Ignoring everything that proves you wrong is not context.

And you are just wrong. They don’t actually support your claim.

No, he wasn’t. This is a old, and incorrect argument. Genji is not unique is farming an ult in preparation for a big attack. Nearly every hero does that. His ult is just stronger than all the other ones. But he was always capable even outside it.

He needs a LOT more than that to be balanced.

Nano is not a problem for other heroes. The problem is Genji.

That claim is contrary to facts.

Point of fact, he was low picked because he doesn’t play well with the team. He has very little team synergy. He is an extremely powerful solo hero, but not a team based hero. This is why he is played in ladder so much, but not in OWL all that much.

And they didn’t buff his team play. They didn’t make him work more with the team. They just buffed his solo power so much that he is so OP he has to be played now. Sure, it gets him OWL. But it also makes him broken OP.

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135

It sucked. Sombra was bad through the entire ladder back then all up to GM, but she got nerfed anyways because some OWL teams managed to get an upset against a perceived better team using Sombra. Cant have that.
Funny thing is they nerfed her in the same patch which introduced 2-2-2 role lock which made playing goats impossible. She was in need of a buff and they dumpstered her further because of a hate mob which cant think rationally and is not interested in balance.

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Creator Discord was a thing back then too so the same could have happened like now. I hope she can get some buffs now. Especially since the barriers biggest counter is Sombra.

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these, pretty much

20 characters

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I dont have any realistic hope that the devs ever make her viable. By design she scales as you climb in rank, but high lvl players dont like playing as her or against her. So they want her to be “balanced” to be barely usable at their ranks.

You would need a Sombra lobby in high ranks, but barely anyone plays her because how bad she is.

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He was never trash. In fact, pro’s rallied so hard that he was trash, to the point the dev’s released the stats showing he was middle of the pack and doing just fine… so pro’s decided to prove the devs wrong and started one tricking him in comp in an attempt to do so. They found out pretty quick he was still strong, in double shield no less, a meta he wasn’t supposed to be strong in.

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140

Agree to disagree, i do think some of the buffs to Genji were abit unnecessary, like the Deflect cancel, because it usually gives Genji the upper-hand with engagements like Ana, instead of using Deflect mindfully, now Genji players can correct their mistakes by canceling it. if there was a sound cue i would be fine with the cancel change, but right now I don’t like it too much.

I’m all for the rest of the buffs, just not the Deflect changes as of now.

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That they make an excellent place to grow plants in?

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so which is it? use GM stats or no? please make up your mind.

you want context?

  • did genji require a whole comp built around him to just have a chance at contributing? no. but bastion and sym do right now because that’s how devs are bias balancing them.
  • did genji require specific maps to be viable while being not viable esp at pro level? no. but bastion and sym do right now because that’s how devs are bias balancing them.
  • did genji require his other teammates to actively go out of their way to play drastically actively different in order for him to be able to have a chance of contributing like team pockets for sym and bastion or people needing follow the calls and orders of sombra? no because unlike them his kit’s balanced with reasonable independence in mind unlike the those other heroes.
  • does genji spontaneously get massive nerfs to his engagement and disengagement ability dumpstering his hero uptime like sym did via infinite tp ? no
  • has genji gotten nerfs on all but 1 aspect of his kit for simply being 1 if the last few heroes not made invalid by the current meta comp despite being historically trash in other meta comps for years? no
  • do devs balance genji with unreasonable expectations on him like sym3.0 initial release (10m sustain damage primary, 4s to lvl3, they totally expected that she’d reasonably somehow find a way to get that close and live that long to use her primary)? no

don’t play victim in front of the actual victims with all the privileges that genji has had.

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They technically gave up.

Blizzard is really not good when it comes to complicated balancing situations.

I mean take a look at WOW for example. 15 years, and right now is considered to be the worst state of PVP in years, due to how terribly balanced it is.

The problem with blizzard, is that they listen to people crying about this and that from all sources and eventually come up with a solution that in their minds, is going to solve everybody’s problems. But it ends up being something that everyone hates. They’re scared of the backlashes of healers and tanks if they nerf their characters, so they buff instead to make everyone happy…

And above all else, they’re stubborn as hell. Never backing down from a stupid mistake.

take mercy rework for example. Turning res into an ability which is obviously the most broken thing imaginable. Made her the absolute best hero in the game for over 6 months. And instead of just realizing how stupid that decision was and either reverting it or nerfing her down quickly, they lingered and took a long time and playtested it at the cost of 6 months of hell for everyone.

And then there are other games like dota 2 for example. Hundred plus heroes, hundreds of different items, talents, abilities and so on. It’s so complicated that you can state that no two games of dota will EVER be the same and you’re kind of not wrong. Yet icefrog handles the balancing like a boss. bad decisions? Fixed immediately. Stupid decisions? Reverted back to original. Things being to plain and repetitive? a global change on multiple layers of the game to make things fresh and interesting. And in all these years, you’d never see permanent issues with balancing as overwatch shown.

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Actual joke people saying genji has been trash, he was always average or even above average in basicly all ranks.
In the meantime sym, soldier, sombra, etc… would like to have a word about what trash actually means. Those have like a tenth the pickrate of genji and people say they are fine.

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He never ever was trash. He was under the average a bit over a year, though.
But trash he never was.

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I had him in my game like 6/10 times. And now 20/10.

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I’ve never said we shouldn’t use them. What I’ve said is when we use them we need to look at the context.

Wow, gatekeeping are we?

Just because one hero is performing poorly doesn’t mean that others aren’t.

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If genji’s buff was appropriate, then doing it to the rest of the cast will break the game.

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before buff: hero was decent, but has many base hero counters.
after buffs: hero is now good, but still can be countered. less counters have resulted from the buffs.

do people not use ultimates on gengi when hes ulting with nano? grav is worth it because its 1-2 ultimate exchange, and a decent zarya can gain ult charge easily off of tanks during longer fights

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Here’s the thing, I don’t care if a DPS is viable, I really don’t but when a character become as strong as Genji is now, then it’s a big problem, I’ve always thought that Genji was ballanced, maybe his deflect needed a change. Pluss Genji’s been one of the most popular picks in the game since the release, and doesn’t Blizzard buff the least played heroes? If so, that kinda proves the point that I’m about to make about Genji being a bit too strong in my opinion.
Also keep in mind, I know that Genji isn’t the only annoying characters, we have Sombra which literally takes away Lúcio’s self healing and wall-riding so he just becomes this person that can only run and shoot, nothing else, and she can take away Mccree’s role and Soldier’s sprint. That’s just not fair is it? Anyway, back to the point I was making

BUT! If they were gonna buff the deflect time and the fact that you can cancel it on your own (which is really painfull btw) Blizzard could’ve at least nerfed the hit box for when Genji is deflecting. I can shoot 26 miles away from Genji and he’ll still deflect it.

My point being is that, yes, he did need a change after 2 years and the only change being the ammo size, but not the damage or the right click buff, so unnecessarily big change to throw in. I feel like they chould take away the damage to what it was, it’s 90 dmg every clip if you hit all three shurikens… ON A BODY SHOT! Just think about that, 90 damage everytime he shoots, and now that it’s easier to hit all 3 it’s so much worse.
Anyway, I think Blizzard should take away the damage and the right click buff, but keep the deflect buff, if they could do that, I would be happy.

And what do you mean by no DPS being viable? Reaper, Widowmaker, Mccree, Pharah, Doomfist, Torbjörn, Symmetra? All of those heroes play a big role in the game. Reaper for tanks, Torb and Sym for defence, widow as well i guess. Mccree and Widow for Pharah, and Pharah for Pharmercy. Doomfist is just annoyingly strong.

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This is some major irony considering you said Sombra was fine a month ago…

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Lmao I can’t believe people are THAT stupid. And STILL developer agrees to them and buffs hero to broken state only because of useless pick rates. This game is about team composition and if hero is not looking good in most powerful ones it doesn’t mean hero is bad and you cenrantly don’t need to buff him to hell in order to improve pick rate. That is just terrible game desing as always from Blizzard

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I love it when dps feel what tanks and supports have been feeling for years. (Having their heros witch hunted by everyone until they get gutted to f tier)

#feelgoodman

1 Like