I wish Blizzard would just realize they’ve made a mistake with her entire rework. The way they handled this has been a huge joke, and an even bigger slap in the face to Mercy mains and support mains in general. I would love it for them to make Resurrect an Ult again. It would be great to stop feeling like a glorified health pack when playing Mercy.
5 Likes
- This was explained in OP, So I don’t think it would be really that bad seeing as she needs to switch between healing and damage boosting so it won’t necessarily be all that powerful as an ability.
If we look at the proposed argument about having the initial beam target have Full healing/Damage Boosting, and the surrounding chain healing will get half doing the math it would look something like this.
Initial Beam Target Healing:
60HPS * 5 Seconds of Valkyrie = 300HP (That’s on par with Moira)
Surrounding Beam Target:
30 HPS * 5 Seconds of Valkyrie = 150HP (That’s on par with Zenyatta)
So she wouldn’t necessarily be broken. It would boost her output of Healing (Which she is the Main Healer of Overwatch). That being said… Mercy switches between Healing and Damage Boosting so you would never get that full amount of healing anyway.
- The effects would activate after casting (which was I think 2.25 seconds respawn invulnerability for allies). So that’s why she would need that personal buff to her in order to stay alive and wait for her team to be revived. Just how old Resurrect worked except with a cast time and the penalties listed above ie. LOS and Blockable by barriers.
- ^ That solves that.
- I think a strong ability on a longer cooldown would be good for Mercy. Her impact without the ability is strong enough. The added benefit of having that AOE boost to her whole team to give that extra pushing power or that slight defensive capability would be so good for her as well. It’s that extra push she needed in order to have some team fighting capabilities which is something she was lacking in the first place.
I greatly agree with everything except making her invaluable during res. I never needed it before they added it and after they did I felt too op. They could only counter me before I resed as I was flying in. I currently have to think “If I res will I die?”. That should stay just like how McCree has to the same.
That’s where OP mentioned different alternatives. She does need something in order to stay alive after she’s cast Resurrect because she would need to wait for her team to respawn which was 2.25 seconds. OP suggested the passive regen she got from being in Valkyrie which I agree with Invulnerability was just too good.
I am also unhappy that it seems that the original “feedback treat”, where all the treats that were closed were referred to, got no answer in the end. Now there is not even an “official” feedback-treat anymore, just like the subject doesnt matter anymore
I put this in another one that cropped up, figured I’d put it here too.
I hope these forums do actually allow them to receive and answer feedback more often, though the lack of new subforums worries me.
This needs to be the main mega thread. Everything HealSluut said is perfect.
Thank You for bringing this topic back!
@Blizzard Team, could You please pin this topic to the forums? It’s clear there is still a huge influx of conversations concerning Mercy, is it not?
#Revert Mercy
8 Likes
I said this before. The base of that idea is okay but overall it has way, Way too many flaws and would only cause more/other problems.
Mercy would be way more fun with a real Ult sure, but with Valkyrie like that on E we would have a new Mercy 2.0 which again kills the other supports and makes them unneeded.
2 Likes
Can you further elaborate? How would moving valk to E make it 2.0 again and kill supports?
usually when people say “VALK ON E” they mean a reduced version
just flight for a couple of seconds as an escape/engage mechanic
The chained beams and extra healing usually isnt wanted
12 Likes
It may not sound broken, but it would effect other support heroes in a bad way. Aoe Healing is unique to Lúcio, if you give it to Mercy as well, that would render him useless in terms of healing. Even on a 20s cd and with less healing on chained targets, it would make Mercy way better than him in Aoe healing.
Zen’s Discord is made for focus fire and Mercy’s Dmgb for Aoe/spread Dmg. The Dmgb from Valkyrie and Supercharger are already more effective than his Discord. You effectively boost the dmg done on all opponents, Discord is only for one target and less effective because of that. If you put that on E, Zen would be dead too.
You only take the stuff, which is unique to Zen and Lúcio and give it to Mercy as an ability. That is not good.
Next, the Increased range.
This is bad for Mercy in general. Any form of increased range would help her to hide, especially with Mass Res as her Ult (this time for real, not just as an biased argument).
The thing with the unlimited ammo is also not very good because it allows you to just spam the enemy and encourages you to not heal/dmgb your team. It would make Mercy a better flanker than a support.
To visualize that a little bit better i will use the Ana/Zarya argument as well.
Ana’s and Zarya’s abilities only do one major thing which has 3 ways for usage. Valkyrie as an E can do 5 major things which have a total of around 11 ways for usage. This is just way to much for an ability on E.
Overall the idea would only make Valkyrie OP as an 20s cd ability. Players could just spam it without any penalties, hide and res would actually become a real thing and some other support heroes would be rendered useless.
The only good thing we can take from Val is the movement and the slightly better cc offense. Use that and make it to an E ability. That can work without making her OP. Healing or team utility abilities could make Mercy to strong. She has already very good healing and Dmgb and this is totally okay.
The Resurrect suggestion is good for the most part. But blockable by barriers is to much and could be very frustrating. The barriers in the game are just to good and even if you get a small res it would still feel a bit wasted and unfair. Every Tank could just drop his barrier to prevent you from ressing someone. The counter would be way to strong.
The charge requirement is already one of the longest in the game. Increasing it is only possible in a very small frame.
It just does too much.
And the Mass res blockable by Barriers thing would just feel bad.
The only two good things in Val are the better movement and the slight cc offensive ability. If we make an ability with that we would be good.
I understand that, but many just want to reducing it, and that is not enough. You would have to cut away very much from it to be balanced.
Only a flight or jump, this is what i say as well. I also have a decent idea for that.
5. New Ability (E): Angelic Ascent
Mercy uses her wings to create a small Aoe knock back around her (no dmg, range: 1-1,5m). After that she jumps ~10m straight into the air. You can bend the trajectory a bit by using W, A, S and D (L Joystick). It gives Mercy a better overview over the battlefield and increases her survivability and mobility.
CD: 11s
Duration: 2s
A new E ability. The Mercy player could combine it with GA and AD to get better movement over the battlefield. The small Aoe knock back can also be used to get some environmental kills. A bad side effect would be increased visibility if you use it.
This would be my idea for a movement based E ability. And i think that could work very well.
A former Top 500 Mercy-Main here:
I like this version of Mercy, but…
No cast time! A cast time (let alone such high one as 1-1,5 seconds) would be the death of Mercys ult. You would get interrupted every single time trying to revive your team. Just think about it. If most or even all of your teammates are dead and you have to literally fly into the enemy team to revive them, the enemies would instakill you every time, because they could ONLY focus you, because there would be no other targets.
The cast time is the thing that is the most atrocious to her kit right now. If we would get a new Mercy, THIS is the thing that should never return.
The rest is fine.
1 Like
that sounds nice a bit of knockback for the heroes in mercy’s face would be nice too
A good widow would be able to punish it so it’s probably not OP
2 Likes
I think without a cast time it can’t really promote counter play besides not wiping the team or watching her fly in. I hate the cast time too, but it forces you to combo something like an orisa shield or zarya bubble if its dangerous to res and punishes un aware teams if she can get a free mass res off without any protection.
Does it just send her up into the air? The knock back is nice, but I can already get vertical moment with GA bunny hop. I think valk on e and it only providing flight and further GA range is a lot better. I could use it to escape things like D.va bombs or strictly for the increased GA range to get to the fight faster.
As described, you can make a curve with it as well if you use wasd (something like ~110° max). Use GA and AD as well and you can do some really good moves with it. It can just send her up, but that would be a bit pointless, as I thought.
The vertical momentum with GA’s bunny hop is more a very complicated exploit (something which already existed befor her rework, but it wasn’t usable). If you don’t get this right it can send you in any direction, randomly.
This would be a more official way to do that and can help her to survive if she has no teammates in Los.
It defiantly would be useful if teammates aren’t around to dash to as well as just the knock back. I guess either or it isn’t that big of a deal to me. Having res back on ult is what I really want, but balanced proper like suggested in the op.
Your assessment is flawed.
First there are 5 ways to counter the “classic” massrez:
1.) Kill the Mercy first. This should be the golden rule for every DPS-Hero, especially for Tracer and Genji who are in nearly every ranked game and who are DESIGNED to do this job.
2.) Ulteconomy. This is something every team in competitive should learn, otherwise they deserve to be punished. If you really had to blow all your 6 ultimates to win ONE teamfight, you played poorly. Especially if the enemy Mercy is playing wrong, which means she is hiding. Then its a 6v5 and it should be even easier to spare just ONE offensive ultimate to kill the resurrected team immediately after the rez.
3.) Chase Mercy with one Dps-Hero into her team and then ult her, exemplum gratia with Zaryas ult.
4.) Stagger the deaths of you enemies in space and time. A Mercy needs all the souls VERY near to each other both in space and time.
5.) The hardest one: Kill the Mercy while she flys in. With a los-requirement she would no longer be able to rez from behind a wall, so the enemies could kill her, while she has to get to the souls.
Furthermore, I dont understand your second part. If your whole team is DEAD, how can they give the Mercy a Bubble or shield???
Its impossible. Mercy is so teamdependent, she at least needs to perform her Ultimate ALONE, because this ultimate is designed in such a way that she is most likely alone.
All this talking about incentivzing teamwork by giving her a casttime is rubbish. I constantly play alone, I for example dont have somebody who constantly watches my back. Overwatch is teamgame, but even in higher ranks there is not NEARLY enough coordination to always protect your supports. Every hero in the game can perform his abilities alone, Mercy should not be an exception (except GA of course).
Or should we put a casttime on Genjis deflect and say: Hey we need to shield the Genji, this causes more teamwork!
I was thinking really lineally and agree with you. Especially killing the mercy first duh! When I brought up the Orisa Zarya thing I was meaning like 3 people are dead and you’re gonna res them in the middle of the fight so you call out for a shield to protect you.
1 Like
(Just going to post what I think IMO Mercy should be changed to before reading the thread, so if I say something the same as someone else, not on purpose, just haven’t read it yet!)
I think a really simple way to make mercy fair fun and balanced would be to rebalance how she is right now around her being what she was before all the reworks; a great single target healer who can bring people back to the fight.
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Put resurrect on a resource meter that works like Torb’s armour packs.
This one is super obvious, since so many people have suggested it all over the place I’m willing to bet it’s been said to death here, but since the dev’s didn’t and haven’t done it, I think explaining it one more time wouldn’t hurt. Rez is too powerful to be on cooldown, it doesn’t need to be an Ult but it does need to be earned like one. Make it take 3000 healing to get a Rez, 4000, 6000 whatever works fairly, just make it so:
- mercy can’t Rez right out the gate
And… - better mercy’s get more Rez’s than worse mercy’s
It’s that simple on the rez front, keep the cast time and everything just this is all it needs (though a nice QoL change would be an increase to mercy’s move speed while casting, just so it doesn’t feel so iky to use)
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Remove the chain beams from Valkyrie
They suck for so many reasons, the chain heal makes her just a better Lucio half the time, and the chain damage boost makes her a weaker Supercharger that can fly, they just don’t fit well with the other heros that exist, and to top it all off, because they remove the need to prioritise targets it takes all thought out of playing mercy for the 15 seconds it’s active. Chain beams are bad and Have To Go. (IMO)
I personally think Valk as an ult should boost her survivability, mobility and single target healing ability. as it currently is it already does the first two so here’s how I think Valk should work:
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In Valk mercy get’s free fly, unlimited ammo on her gun, a speed boost to her movement and GA (like it used to before the last nerf) and it should extend her heal beam’s max range (Probably not by as much as it does right now though, just to keep her a little closer to the fight)
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In Valk Mercy’s heal beam should go from 60HPS up to 90.
Without chain beams she still needs to prioritise the target which needs this healing, and with the implementation of a resource meter for Rez’s mercy’s ult will directly increase her Rez output. -
(Optional) if Valk still doesn’t feel quite ultimate strength enough like this, it could reduce the cast time of Rez (Note reduce not remove, while instant Rez feels best for everyone involved, I recognise removing it’s counterability would bring us back to earlier issues of her being too strong, so I say this is only a maybe change and it would likely only go down to 1 second, less than a second shorter).
And that’s it really, that’s all I personally think mercy needs to feel good to play again, earned Rez on resource, and no chain beams on Valkyrie.
(Some quick bits I forgot to put in as I was writing but don’t want to try and edit in:
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Rez resource would cap at one Rez, so you need to use it before you can earn another OR Rez resource can store 1.5 Rez’s e.g. if one Rez = 3000 healing, meter caps at 4500. This let’s you keep building past a Rez so you don’t feel pressured to use it ASAP but doesn’t let you stack up/hoard Rez’s. (this is my preference)
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Just like Torb’s armour pack resource and all Ult’s, she’d passively get charge over time, but it would be on a minute scale, like enough charge to get one Rez by waiting every 10 minutes, or something like that.
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Depending on how much healing was needed to generate a Rez, I think the required ult charge to get Valk AND the duration of Valk would need tweaking, for example if she needed a lot of healing for a single Rez (6000) maybe make Valk a little easier to get and let it still last 15 seconds, but if it were a lower amount per Rez (3000) I say make Valk a little harder to charge than right now and have the duration drop to 10 seconds.
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The Rez resource meter would likely also get charge from damage boost and pistol damage just like how her Ult does, but both would need to be a decent amount weaker as I think Mercy should be encouraged to keep her team alive, not damage boost them into a fight, charge Rez and bring them back to do it again- But also as a big fan of battle Mercy I don’t want that playstyle to be completely invalidated, hence this footnote.
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Related to the last note about battle mercy I just want to throw it out there that a rework of Valk less focused on Rez’s and more focused on her potential as a free flying death machine is not something I would be opposed to, for example instead of increasing her HPS in Valk actually decreasing it, hear me out.
her HPS and DMG boost go down to 40HPS and 20% increased damage, but the beams combine so left click gives an ally both effects, in her left hand Mercy take out her pistol and can shoot with right mouse button (flip the buttons/hands if you want it to make more sense w/e). Valk is still a strong ult but lets mercy have more fun and utility, and it still builds her Rez at a good rate, just not significantly better than normal. Food for thought.
I think that’s it for notes, yeah that’s how I personally think they should change Mercy, the key changes being Rez earned on resource and not chain beams in Valk, I’m honestly not too fussed about what else they do, so long as they did those two things (and didn’t make Valk useless int he process, obv). I applaud you if you read all this, literally took like an hour to write.)