Haha funny how it sounds like you just don’t want people to disagree with you. I wonder who the Trump supporter as you say really is. The one trying to explain why it isn’t a good thing or the one using fake good reasons to try and prove that his idea is the best ![:slight_smile:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Sorry but since you like talking about pros so much you should know that they are against role queue at least until we have more heroes
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The arguments against forced 2-2-2 look a lot like the arguments against the 1-hero-limit. Most people who are against it fear it will ruin creative comps in Overwatch, but this is not what happened with the 1-hero-limit. The restriction actually increased the viability of many heroes which in turn made team compositions more divers and situation based. This is very much what will happen with forced 2-2-2. Sure, you will lose the ability to play certain comps like GOATS or the QP favorite “5 DPS + Roadhog”, but in the end it will force players to re-adept and come up with new team compositions that haven’t been widely used before.
In addition to that, you can now also create a robust role based matchmaking (role queue) which brings additional benefits like separate SR for roles and no more guessing what roles your team will have.
The pros of Forced 2-2-2 + Role queue outweigh all of the proposed cons.
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Exactly! And also consider this: The DPS role (or earlier the attack and defense role combined) is the one role that statistically has had the lowest competitive average pick rate throughout Overwatch’s history. Yet, it holds the most heroes. This means, forcing 2-2-2 will mathematically increase pick variety in pro games and in upper ranks.
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I agree.
ill pass as it seems that the only people that ever want forced 222 are dps mains (thus forcing others to play support and tank when they dont) …
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Forced 2-2-2 is one of the worst Overwatch ideas EVER. Could you imagine how dumb it would be if OWL had to follow a strict 2-2-2 structure? It would ruin creativity. I’m honestly baffled that so many people support this horrible idea. Especially when half the cast are dps characters.
All we need is a little icon by our name indicating what we would prefer to play; Tank, Support, DPS, or Flex. (Just like in LFG)
The matchmaker then uses that info to make the teams as fair as possible and to help calculate the SR to gain/loose based on which team has a better chance to win. (A team with too many of one category may have an increased chance of loosing)
It’s not a role que; it’s a role
preferancs que and it’s the best of both worlds because it significantly helps players play what they want and helps structure team comps but it doesn’t actually force anything so all the flexibility still exists.
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How about 2-2-flex? I never want enforced roles, but this allows for players to be more adaptable.
I suggest you scroll up like three replies and read the comment by TehArbitur, and also my response to it.
Forced 2/2/2 is bad. It solves no problems, only covers them, while also creates a lot of new ones. Forced 2/2/2 guts options and reduces variety of comps.
Hero ban/protect system is good. It solves problems and does not create any new one. Hero ban/protect system provides variety of comps.
No need to add that pro players genuinely dislike the idea of forced 2/2/2 just like they dislike any forced limitation, while some of them are already playing tournaments with hero ban/protect system.
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I suggest that you also scroll up and read TehArbitur’s comment (about 5 comments up).
And I beg to differ on the pro player opinions. All of the ones I’ve talked to on stream think role queue is a good idea. But you can’t have a role queue with a defined set of roles in each game.
What I would like to see is ability to vote against one or more heroes in comp (so they are disabled), so I don’t need to replay same pirate ship crap most of the time I get on junkertown, like whenever I get that map I just hope they don’t decide to play same boring strategy again and most of the time it’s so infuriating that we play the same comp just to retaliate.
No need.
You can already form parties and enforce roles.
Besides, sometimes one healer is okay.
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Enforced roles are a terrible idea.
2-2-2 Enforced as roles making most DPS ghost pick rate is a terrible idea made more terrible.
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Sorry, but his comment has no value. It makes no sense because he draws an analogy between forced 2/2/2 and 1hero limit, while it is two absolutely different cases. No limit was an obvious design disaster because it led to hero stacking, which never worked well, it was a clear problem from the beginning of the game.
While no role limit does not lead to hero stacking. It may lead lead only to role stacking, which is not harmful as hero stacking, because different heroes of the same role works in very different ways. No hero limit was bad because of spamming of same abilities, while no role limit does not lead to same ability spamming at all.
No need to add that no role limit works well for almost 3 years, while no hero limit was removed in like season 1 or 2, if I am not mistaken.
Forced 2/2/2 will simply lead us to play only two comps: dive and regular 2/2/2 with Rein. Depends on which will be more powerful, probably dive. We already played this disaster for almost 8 month in the past.
People on forums hate Goats, but they tend to ignore that when Goats became a thing we get the most diversive meta we ever played. 100% Goats vs Goats is a thing only on highest levels of play, while majority of players use it only as one of many viable options. While forced 2/2/2 will lead us to play dive vs dive again and again on all levels of play, like it was before.
Then I can assume that it was pretty bad pros. Because good ones understand that there are much more than three roles in the game. And with such huge amount of distinct roles it is unrealistic to make a balanced role queue without hour-long queue times.
Again, as I and a lot of other people said before: of you want to play forced 2/2/2 - go LFG and make a 2/2/2 team with forced roles. LFG solves a lot of problems, it just takes some more time to achieve better result. But people are lazy and stupid in most cases, they want to receive perfectly balanced and structured team by single press of button, which is unrealistic by definition.
If the main reason why you want forced 2/2/2 is to prevent enemies to play Goats it only means that you tries to justify your inability to counter it, which means lack of skill and understanding of when and how to switch.
So saying “It solves no problems” after I’ve made a comprehensive list of problems is a comment that has value? Saying “it guts options and reduces variety if comps” without making a case on how is a comment that has value? Saying “ban/protect system does not create any new problems” is a valuable comment? It isn’t because it is WRONG. Here are some problems it creates: In the pro scene where people know their opponents it’s a great thing. In ranked queue however, it will result in one or a few heroes being banned pretty much every match, and it will likely be tanks and/or healers. So tanks and healers will have even fewer options than they normally do, which is a problem in itself. And the result of that will be a new meta without these permabanned heroes. And the problem I’m addressing will remain: that comp will most likely be a boring comp with 1 or 0 DPS heroes as well.
You’re arguing with little-to-no substantial reasoning, you’re just throwing around terms like “this is the worst idea”, “this does not lead to that, period” and “these are two different cases” with no additional information on why you reason like that.
There will not be such a thing like permabanned heroes. You simply don’t understand the difference between hero ban system and hero ban/protect system. Learn:
If you decided to ignore information provided to you it does not mean that there was no information provided at all. “Have no value” just hurt your feelings and you become tilted. It is obvious from how aggressive you speak.
I gave you my reasoning and arguments. You decided to ignore them. Then I have no reason to argue with you at all. Actually, there never was any reason to argue about this topic, because I am sure that there never will be forced 2/2/2. Role queue in some form - maybe somewhere in the future. But forced 2/2/2 - no way. Because it obviously contradicts to all game’s core values.
You may have your reasoning in your head, but it is clear as day in all your posts that you’re explaining pretty much nothing substantial.
No substance whatsoever. Pure speculation. Besides, it contradicts my original post that lists a long list of problems it solves. Also, you’re talking about creating new problems, and the only one you mention is it reduces variety of comps.
This being the only substantial thing you said on this topic, I addressed it with asking you to read a comment from before, which addresses this very thing. You answered “This comment has no value” and again started to speculate about these two things being “absolutely different”. They’re not, and you’ve made no points to argue your case. They are both about limiting your hero select options based on what your teammates are selecting. They’re exactly the same.
You then proceed to talk about how no hero limits are worse because it prevents spamming of some hero abilities. Why is spamming of some hero abilities such a bad thing, but stale metas with no DPS heroes in a community where half of the player base are DPS players isn’t?
You then proceed to claim that no role limit and the absence of role queue “works well”, which is an inaccurate statement. Every single streamer I watch talks about how this game is getting worse, and how frustrating it is that like every other game is a bad game because matchmaking RNG puts 5 mercy mains on the same team. I haven’t played it for months, because it’s so frustrating to play. Many earlier comments of this thread indicate that there are a lot of people quitting for the same reason.
Forced 2-2-2 will definitely lead to new metas, oneof which may be dive. As long as they are more than 1, it’s a victory. But yes, we will likely have stale meta periods in the future even with forced 2-2-2, but it will still be more entertaining to watch AND play. Playing Overwatch without DPS heroes is like playing soccer without attackers. Sure, you will have a really solid defense, which leads to less losses, but the games will be extremely boring to watch, and the players that have made a career out of playing attackers will be forced to do something else.
You then proceed to say “100% Goats vs Goats is a thing only on highest levels of play, while majority of players use it only as one of many viable options” followed by “While forced 2/2/2 will lead us to play dive vs dive again and again on all levels of play, like it was before”, which makes no sense whatsoever. Why would forced 2-2-2 lead to everyone at all levels playing dive, when the current Goats meta is, and I quote, “a thing only on highest levels of play”?
Then you can assume wrong. Find me ONE pro that has said role queue is a bad idea.
Now, I have literally addressed every line of “information” you have provided to me. And I have either counter-argued it or explained why it is not information.
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I mentioned this earlier in this same post, but I’ll post it again to reply to your commends. What META Comps are being consistently run and correctly applied below Diamond? Hint: None (this includes Dive)
Forced role que would take nothing away from 90% of the Comp ladder because 90% of the Comp ladder isn’t coordinated or skilled enough to use META comps in the first place. I would be fine even with force 2-2-2 below Diamond, then once players have established a decent base understanding of how to play then game, then allow them to use the more nuanced team Comps starting at a rank where team-coordiantion finally starts to take shape.
Player choice is what’s gotten us into this mess with Ranked Mode. Time to remove it and force players to coordinate at a base-level (the Hero select screent).
Ooof, this post was a teamkill by itself.
People fear change, even when the current situation is bad. But the idea of role que comes up again and again from multiple people,across all ranks and they do,for a very good reason.
And like i said many times,we have PTR to test things, we have arcade which can effectively work as a PTR by itself…its just easier to dismiss the option and make false reasons against it i guess.
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I never said that the game should stay as it is now. I delivered another solution in previous posts. And this solution is hero ban/protect system. It solves the same problems without creating new ones. And pros are already trying it on practice on some tournaments and it works fine. And this is an universal system, because unlike forced comps, which is a system limitation by nature, hero ban/protect is a tool that provide players with choice, so different players will use it differently, so it will work on all level of play, pro and regular.
That was not a single game. And “that team was going to win anyway” is very bad argument, because you cannot reliably assume such things.
Than why 3 of same role is a problem, while 2 of same role is not? 2 of the same role is also a class stacking, you know.
Nah, you are wrong here. No-hero limit was a problem because of ability stacking. It was a problem because 2 speedboost were OP, because 2 winstons with their leap and barriers were OP.
No role limit does not lead to ability stacking. It is absolutely different cases.