And then we going to have great healer/tank combos like Zarya+Orisa and Brigitte+Zen ~
The fact that you can change heroes and roles mid game is great, if your dps is not doing well and have a bad day it can always switch to heal or tank and let someone else dps. Tank can always change to mei/doom/tracer to help holding a point, sometimes solo heal works with heroes that can self sustain.
However they could do prefered role system similar to what they have in LOL, where you pick for example dps as a main thing and then add that you could play main support or tank and then system matches you with players that could fill in other roles but whiteout actually forcing player to be on the same role all the time. Sure you will have dps mains who puts support and still plays dps, but most of the time the team comp will be more healthy, in the end most of us actually want to win.
As I said, there is only one group of players that will see a downside with this: DPS players that play DPS regardless of what the team needs, that get ourtaged that they now have to wait an extra minute in queue. If these guys quit the game, good riddance!
Tank players will get less queue time. Healers will get less queue time. Flexers will get SIGNIFICANTLY less queue times. DPS players that enjoy playing DPS the most, but fill when needed, will prefer waiting an extra minute instead of having to play something else every other game. 10 out of 10 times.
How is this ANY different than what we have today? You can ALWAYS end up in comps where no one knows how to play a certain counter. It is a million times more likely that one or both of the two guys that queued up to play tank know how to play DVa/Winston/Hammond than it would be for the random queue we have now to 1. happen to have a DPS main that knows Winston and a tank main that doesnât, and 2. to be willing and flexible enough to do this switch.
Are you arguing for or against me? If you can do something now, and youâll STILL be able to do it after the change, whatâs the downside?
Sure, start a thread and ask how many others feel that there are maps where no possible option in the hero pool of all heroes in your main category is playable/fun, and see how much response youâll get. This is as much of a con as it is to say âSome people need the option to switch roles when itâs snowing outsideâ. Be real plz.
We saw the same thing in the beta, where running double Winston double Lucio double Tracer was meta. Then they introduced hero restrictions, and that strategy (that was optimal at the time) could no longer be played. But guess what. The game got better.
Troll switchers are not trolls, nor players that want to troll. They are regular players with regular minds. And the way a regular mind works is that when something goes wrong, you blame others. So if there is already a frustration with someone, say, if he had to play tank instead of the DPS he wanted to play, and the team plays badly, he will blame the DPS and try to fix the problem by switching onto DPS himself. This works out about 0 times of 100.
Currently, this is not a reportable offense, unless he also stops trying to win. If our main tank decides to switch to McCree because heâs angry at the DPS players, the team has little-to-no chance of winning. If roles were enforced, he would never get the false hope that he can save the situation by switching onto another role. Instead, his options are to keep trying as a tank, or start trolling, get reported and eventually banned.
And yet, theyâre forced on to it. DPS mains are playing Zarya and Brig now, because of GOATS. I agree with you that their level on these heroes is mostly lower than if they got to play a DPS hero, but the comp is still better than a comp with those DPS heroes.
Youâre right about this. But what you fail to realize is that it is this way because there is no role queue in the first place. That player was in all likelihood playing a sub-par DPS because he isnât a DPS main, and he didnât have a role specific SR that placed him in a game suitable for his level of DPSing. And in the cases where this isnât the case (maybe he is just having a bad game), switching this DPS main to a sub-par role will statistically fail more times than not.
This is correct, but it will still be infinitely much better. The percentage of main tanks that can also play off-tanks at a similar level is MUCH higher than main tanks that can also play Widowmaker at a similar level.
But yes, it will still be a problem. But look at it this way: I presented a change that would solve problems A, B and C. Rejecting the idea because it doesnât also solve problems D and E is kinda dumb.
So what youâre saying is that if youâre a main tank, you should probably also know Hammond, and if youâre an off tank, you should probably also know Winston? You just solved your own problem.
No it has to be enforced on the pros, because theyâre the douchecanoes who have forced blizzard to come out with increasingly heavy handed nerfs to stop them from gaming the system with GOATS comps: tank and healer stacking that ruins the game.
Uhm nope. Queue time is not enough to compensate for everything that weâll lose. Also many people will just tag healer and tank just to have that slower Queue time when they canât even play this role.
Exactly my point. Role queue wonât solve that problem and it wonât change anything. However if you need to change for a main tank or a support when youâve selected one of those flex roles well youâre screwed cause those guys who took this role wonât be able to change and youâll have either a good team comp with bad players on their role or a really bad team comp with half of the team bein good on their role and the rest just stuck like that.
Just saying that it wonât change anything so itâs neither a downside or an upside.
You donât play Sym, Bastion, Torb, Mei, Ashe, Widow, Reaper, Doomfist or even Sombra on every single map. Also take something like Hanamura. You can have either a very divy comp or a slower one.
If you have Numbani on the other hand, youâll have much more difficulty playing with a slow comp rather than a Dive. Basically if you queued for DPS but you donât necessarily play Dive dps youâll just be bad.
If you play mainly supports, sometimes you want to switch things up but youâre not good on every map and such. Itâs really more common than what youâd think.
Guess what ? You canât compare both of these because No limits was taken down due to the fact that it made hero balancing just impossible. What youâre asking for means a rebalance for a big part of the roster. Also even if we had less comps available after that, we still had a few. With your thing weâd have way less and there is absolutely no guarantee than the game would get any better.
Yeah well guess what, they wonât change for dps but theyâll just go in solo to do the dps by themselves no matter who they have. As you said that frustration needs to be taken care of one way or another. The way will just be doing the dps by themselves.
Yeah thatâs why I talked about secondary roles. Also on some teams they just prioritize the tanks/heals players over the dps players in their line-ups (those who would normally sub or fill in for whatever reason).
Yes and no, youâll still have the issue of playing one kind of tank or one kind of support and not the rest. When you have no role queue you can switch role entirely, if you have though, you will be forced to play some things you donât like and are bad with just because you picked that role. The best solution for this right now is just to play in duo/trio.
Except it only solves those problems in your mind. In reality it will not help. On top of that, it would be really bad for high elo ranks where you usually have no problem to switch heroes and find a decent compo and youâd have a big problem with that role queue.
Absolutely not what I was saying.
My point is, youâd have no way to categorize Winston or Hammond because they are both a bit of a main tank and a bit of an Off-tank. Nothing to do with who you should know how to play.
The best way of solving the issues youâre talking about is just to find people to play with you. If you can try to join a community so that you can always have 2 or 3 people to play with you. Just with that youâll have no issue whatsoever if a tank switches to a dps cause one of you can just fill.
Itâs two very different things though, one is a sandbox like game where you are meant to just run around and do what you want, the other is a competitive team shooter.
Another difference is that OW actually has different modes for people to play it in different ways.
They had the the same problem when discussing getting rid of no hero limit for QP and Arcade and there were plenty of people against it, however after an amount of time it clearly proved to be better for the game. Big changes will always have a lot of resistance even if they will make the game better.
I think the game should make you choose 2 roles you are willing to play, 1 if flexing. You would chose your first preference (your ideal role) and a second preference. This is how league of legends does it and it works very well. Also, the game would make sure at each team has 2 players willing to play the 3 roles, which would take 6 (less if players choose flex) of the potential 12 selections to work out while grouping players.
But the game shouldnât force you into your role, itâs more of a âIâm willing to play these heroesâ than âI cant switch offâ. This allows for adaptability while maintaining potential for structured teams. But for this to work we must be able to report players for refusing to play the roles they have selected in an effort to damage the gameplay.
If 4-1-1, 3-2-1, 3-0-3, 0-6-0, 1-0-5âŚcan also deliver the job, what is the point to force players to do 2-2-2?
The âProsâ in OP can support any kind of the composition. Why should 2-2-2 be the only choice?
How about use LFG if you are really really addicted to one specific composition? Try to find someone with similar mindset instead of forcing everyone else.
Its very easy, go and use LFG.
The main issue is that you claim that many players agree ⌠sure, then why not using the LFG ? a tool that literally does enable you to play the way you want?
Oh ⌠because not many use the LFG and the queue times would be increased dramatically ⌠right. Why is that? probably because actually not that many players agree.
Trying to force something new on ALL the players, just because you think its the best way to play the game, its not good buddy. Like Jeff said, if you TRULY think that, make use of the LFG.
If they see 97% of players use the LFG with that specific configuration 2-2-2, i can guarantee you that they will do something.
The most important reason people dont use it, is because its not automatic, you have to do it manually. When you have to do something manually,it takes longer and the chances of human error is bigger. Since you choosed that team, and they choosed each other, the influence of matchmaking is reduced,hence you cannot blame it that much.
Role que still provides what LFG does, but still gives you random teammates without any player interaction, neither from your side, or your teammates. So if things go wrong,you can still blame matchmaking. (and to an extent rightfully, since it can be always improved.)
I can see why you think that, but many other people doesnt, thats the thing.
You are going into a âmid termâ between just clicking on Competitive and going into LFG and wait for people to join.
If the change is force EVERYONE that clicks on comp on that system, then no. Absolutely not.
If the change is just add that as a competitive mode that uses the same queues ⌠then we are basically going back to square one, the main issue of the queue waiting times and not being automatic is still there.
You can also add the unfairness of random solo queuers facing a 3-6 stack that has their preferences in roles in consideration, so ⌠some SR adjustments should be done, like those who use the âstackâ system get less per win and lose more etc.
Unpopular opinion: I simply donât want enemy team know my team comp (even role ratio) before we actually start the fight.
There are a lot of chokes/maps/enemy comps that is better to deal with using a highly out of meta setup. Like 4 DPS, 4 tanks, 3 supports, etc. And it can be picked for say 2 min of a round time to break bastion setup fast or to dive and kill enemy on point on the first push, or just to contest the payload a few more seconds while your Zarya is farming last 15% of grav.
If you want to remove all of that, you probably just donât want to adapt to changing situations really fast.
In this treads the whole idea of restricting ENEMY COMP to specific predictable 2-2-2 comes unnoticed.