I never liked this sentiment, why shouldn’t it be viable to pick a tank in any ELO? That’s the whole point of balancing heroes.
I think Orisa is a great example of how a tank should be able to protect squishies and make space compared to others. If D.va was buffed just a bit I think she’d be in a great place.
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Because if tracer was good in Bronze then she would be a giga overpowered must pick in anything above plat.
Tracer isn’t a tank last time I checked but ok.
A character that is sufficiently skill based shouldn’t have to worry about that if balanced correctly. People hated brig because she DIDN’T require the skill most others needed to get to GM.
I’m not saying it’s easy I’m just saying it can be done. And esp. since all she got was a slight buff to movement speed and weapon spread.
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No she isnt but both her and dva are skillful characters dva has the highest skill floor of any tank with one of the highest skill ceilings.
She requires alot of gamesense too.
Thats why she cant be balanced for low ranks without being giga overtuned just like if tracer was balanced for low ranks.
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It’s possible to balance for the game as a whole, that’s what the game design is for and tracer is a lot of cheese in low sr, you just need to stay alive on the back line, drawing the attention of the healers
d.va doesn’t have a cheese mode low sr
alias tracer plays the same in owl and top500
the difference is that in owl and top 500 they can clip any non-tank, but it’s not necessary in low sr.
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As much as I’d agree, this just isn’t possible. Perfect game balance is a myth, and I’d rather accept the fact that some heroes just wont be played as much in some ranks. The truth is that you can play whatever hero in whatever rank if you’re good enough.
Yes, even Reaper in GM. Note that I’m not saying it’ll be easy, or likely, but it is 100% possible.
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I’ll take a lot of flack here for saying this but, in a 1 tank meta, D.va really needs her old armor and her old DM back. She is a solo tank now, so she deserves some respect in that category.
You know, like they did to the other tanks…
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Not really theres a reason why tracers winrate in bronze is like 30%
Same why dvas is low in OW1.
Its not possible to balance for all ranks
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You’re right, which is why it’s a terrible idea to consider balancing the game based on rank…
Or to even balance based on higher rank. That’s even worse.
Balance should be from an objective point of view
other companies do this very well.
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Yeah you mean like Valorant where all the characters use the same weapons and the abillities are very equal.
And even then valorant isnt equal in pickrate
This TBH
If you can get this then the team that wins was just the better team. If someone rolls bronze as a character then they probably shouldn’t be bronze.
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The thing is that makes no sense
“From an objective point of view”
You mean like if your better at a certain character?
Because thats already a thing if you suck at Tracer but have incredibly flicky aim then cassidy is better for you.
That doesnt change the fact that bronzes wont have good game sense so they will never be good at dive tanks because they cannot organize a dive correctly.
It also doesnt change the fact that Bronze players inherently have worse aim so they will never be good at a character like Tracer without her being super broken which makes her giga overtuned for higher ranks.
Both of you have wishful thinking
Now the reason why people balance around higher ranks rather than lower ranks is because players trend upwards players get better overtime not worse.
And players generally rank up or stay the same overtime very few derank overtime.
Things that work in high ranks however unlikely can work in low ranks if a bronze team did orchestrate a dive properly it would work possibly but they cant thats why we balance around the higher ranks and not the lower ranks.
A perfect example of balancing issues is bastion and sym in overwatch 1 was unbalanceable without a rework theres bronzes saying nerf bastion his way too op and GM players saying buff bastion his a throw pick.
Its just not possible to balance high skill or high gamesense characters around low ranks without making them super broken and meta must picks for high ranks.
In OW1 Tracer is the best DPS above Platinum meanwhile shes one of the worst in bronzes now we could make her good in bronze but that would mean buffing her and if you buff the already best character above platinum she becomes a hard meta must pick character.
Like do you think when double sniper was met it was meta or viable in bronze too? The rank where widowmakers cant aim and have a 40% winrate and 0.92 pickrate of course not you literally cannot balance things around low ranks
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pick rate doesn’t mean anything, even winrate can just be a flavor of the moment, riot balances his games taking into account the ladder as a whole, you can’t leave a character stuck in low sr just because he’s bad at the top, and neither on the contrary it can happen, that’s why it’s called equilibrium
https: //www. planet9 .gg/NZ/en/statistics/lol/champions/overview
the most played character at the top of the ladder has 50.73% winrate and 14.83% pick rate, the same character at the bottom has 49% winrate and 7% pickrate.
most always range between 48%-54% is a pretty fair margin I would say.
the only way to create this is to continually improve the game and its mechanics and character interactions.
LOL balance is easier because its less mechanically demanding they dont have to balance stuff like Widowmaker for bronzes or Tracer where you cant afford to miss any shots or you wont get the kill because there isnt that level of aim mechanics.
And in riots other game Valorant winrates go as low as 33% so I guess thats out the window hey?
So that brings us back to this why is Sage a 39% winrate in Iron in valorant but in radiant shes a 52% winrate??
I thought Riot balances their games really well across all the ladder if anything its easier to balance for valorant because all the weapons are the same and abillities rarely get kills, and even they could not manage it.
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are you sure about that ?
league has more variables both in relation to specific items and builds and a relatively greater amount of characters and objectives that must be conquered throughout the game, there are characters of more apm and strategic census than in ow, at least you should aim your skills.
https:// youtu.be/o8vGaC4OZIs
meanwhile genji spam m2 and space use dash and press v
valorant doesn’t have 10+ years on the market, league was chaotic at first, supports were dog water total and jungle was worse than tanking experience in ow1, it was so bizarre that supports didn’t have access to gold to buy items.
neither does overwatch
Most of the skills from csgo transfer to valorant anyway though so its not like a new game its like going from OW1 to OW2 theres differences to adjust to but its pretty similar.
Severly underplaying the fact you have to get a headshot combo or genjis damage gets cucked.
Anyway genji isnt the most skill demanding character but his up there Widow and Tracer are hard to balance for low ranks.
They both require high consistent accuracy.
Game sense complexicity doesnt equal mechanical complexity.
Items dont have to be balanced for ranks because theyre like buffs and dont require mechanics to go to the store and equip them anyone can do it.
Whereas not everyone can get consistent headshots or a perfect one clip with tracer consistently.
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IMO D.Va always needed a pocket to do anything as she gets melted immediately once DM is down even in OW1. A good start would be trying to increase her survivability and go from there.
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Dva has been one of if not the most picked tank in the pro scene and high ranks since the very beginning. Defense matrix is the most unfun ability to play with in the entire game. She looks at a squishy, presses DM, then they can’t do anything at all. Soldier can’t shoot or rocket, Junk can’t shoot or even use conc mine to get away, Bastion can’t fight back at all, etc etc. All the while she can shoot rockets. They increased it’s time to 3 seconds in OW2.
All that’s left to do in response, (if she doesn’t burst you down with her rockets and shotguns which is one of the highest burst damage of all heroes) is to run away. DPS have increased movement speed so they can get away if they have a movement ability but Dva still has her boosters and they come back faster than most DPS movement abilities. Supports are screwed if caught out. Boosters alone let her quickly peel for anyone or escape if she’s already committed.
Dva doesn’t need buffs.
False. She was one of the least picked heroes at the beginning of the game.
Also, irrelevant. You balance the game for now and tomorrow, not yesterday.
Subjective, so irrelevant to balance.
Situational. Some heroes have abilities that ignore DM (about half the abilities and guns in the game do).
For a whole 126 damage, IF she hits all 18 missiles, over a 2s time span. Not enough to kill anyone.
Considering the amount of projectiles needed to hit, it is the worst burst in the game. And with one less hero in the team, that’s even more healing for whoever you dive. Which due to the nature of the “burst,” massively reduces its effects.
Her ult is better in that regard. It’s a single tick. Burst is first and foremost defined by the number of ticks to deal the damage, before the damage itself. Hence why D.Va’s burst is easy to counter unlike Widow’s.
Except for Blink, Sprint, Lunge, and for supports, Guardian Angel, Wallride + Speedboost.
Boosters on its own is no peel.
From experience, D.Va is one of the worst tank in the beta, alongside Roadhog.
Orisa and Zarya are good, Rein is playable, Winston works if you’re good at him, until Reaper is picked, Sigma and Doom are really meh and feel unimpactful, but D.Va and Roadhog will eat all of their team’s healing while feeding insane amounts of ult charge, and achieving nothing or very little.
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