Don't blame the Mercy Mains Flooding the forums

[TobiasAlec-11572]

@RDK-11145

Oh but you have. To anyone it’s clear that revert refers to Mass Rez. Because that’s the popular demand. That’s the part of old Mercy people care about, wax poetic about, want back, and are willing to flood the forums to do so.

Not a healing nerf.

Through that context, if you’re willing to take the 50 HP/s change as a revert that addresses anyone’s wishes for the purposes of your argument, you’re going to have to link me to posts where people use the term “Revert” and ask specifically for 50 HP/s back. Otherwise this is a nonsensical point.

Do you have a link to Jeff confirming this. Yes or No?

@RDK-11145

I’m asking you for the receipts! I won’t even hold you to your reversion carolling if you can do this. Show me one. person. who asked for a revert and by that, meant a return to a 50 HP/s heal rate.

I’ve already explained to you. Such “receipt” are unobtainable. That would require knowing every single Mercy main and their opinion on t he issue, which is impossible. Stop trying to change the subject. The link RDK, do you have it? Yes or no?

@RDK-11145

What am I lying about? That Jeff said there are no plans to revert Mercy (to bring back Mass Rez in the eyes of the single-issue revert posters)? Well, do you see Mass Rez in the game?

You are really pulling at straws here, and it’s really making you look bad… The link. Do you have the link that you claim Jeff said about “Mass rez never coming back”. Yes or no?

@RDK-11145

I’m less beating around the bush and more laughing at your inability – or refusal – to accept things that are not directly said to you. Like this is just embarrassing. I know this is just a rhetorical point on your part but come on. The issue was always Valkyrie and E-Rez, not an objectively better healing rate.

The link. Yes or no?

@RDK-11145

My proof is as such: if Jeff or the devs wanted Mass Rez in the game it’d be in the game.

Do you know how Jeff balances the game? Do you have proof that everything Jeff wants automatically makes it’s way into the game? If so, I would like to see a link that documents this discovery. Thanks!

@RDK-11145

It is their game and they have ultimate veto power over what exists in it or not. They have had over a year to reinstate it and have instead only doubled down on their choice to keep it on an ability, despite the balancing nightmare it has been. On some level, this must communicate to you that they deem it preferable to mass rez in any way.

You are giving me assumptions and platitudes. I don’t care about what they “deem” I care about you proving to me that mass rez is NEVER coming back as you’ve previously claimed. Never is a permanent thing. I need actual evidence that mass res is permanently gone. That is, a statement of jeff, that you yourself made, of him saying

"Mass Res is never coming back."

Do you have a link of him making officially making this statement. Yes or no?

@RDK-11145

People want Mercy’s ultimate reverted back to Mass Rez and don’t give a toss about the rest of old Mercy’s kit because it was objectively worse than it was now (and the main talking point about that is ‘well Mercy was weak but Mass Rez is way more fun than spectator mode Valkyrie’). If you are going to deny that this is the state of Mercy discourse and has been for a year I am going to call you out as a liar.

All of this is irrelevant to our discussion.

The facts are this. YOU claimed with the following statement

@RDK-11145

Apart from Jeff’s own words, obviously?

Do you think she would have 50 HP/s right now if they were looking at going back on their word?

That they aren’t going back on their word of reverting mercy. After I literally proved to you with actual links that Mercy had 50hps before (something you apparently never realized until I brought it up) and that they already reverted her, you went on a rant about how “everyone automatically assumes that it was mass res!” Which is a lie.

Not everyone thinks the same. And before you try to reiterate

@RDK-11145

And again, I challenged you to find one example of a post where the 50 HP/s nerf you are trying to use as a trump card meets their concerns. It doesn’t even have to be the majority. Just one. We both know that such a post doesn’t exist, so you’re trying to throw dictionary definitions at me.

You asked for just 1 example. I have 3 links to threads of people wanting to revert Mercy’s healing. Two from back in 2017, and one that directly talks about not only needing to revert her healing, but also removing rez altogether from her kit.

r/Competitiveoverwatch - Thoughts on Mercy

Overwatch Forums

Revert Mercy healing nerf, remove rez

Mercy’s healing wasn’t the problem, trying to fit an ultimate into a 30 second cooldown ability was. Without rez she’ll be a consistent highly mobile support with a powerful damage boost and a strong sustain ult. She will still be viable on a lot of mobility focused maps within almost every team comp, and be a good place for less mechanically skilled new players to get a feel of the game.

@RDK-11145

I’m less beating around the bush and more laughing at your inability – or refusal – to accept things that are not directly said to you. Like this is just embarrassing. I know this is just a rhetorical point on your part but come on. The issue was always Valkyrie and E-Rez, not an objectively better healing rate.

I have completely shut down your claim with my previous sources… “gg”

@RDK-11145

As far as Jeff saying anything about Mass Rez using the word Mass Rez (because context is dead) you aren’t going to find it. Because that’s not the parlance people use to talk about Mercy.

Wrong. Because you can’t find any data to prove it. That is why it doesn’t exist. There are always “exceptions to the parlances people use” when discussing Mercy, as I’ve proven. Your claim on this is defunct.

@RDK-11145

People want Mercy’s ultimate reverted back to Mass Rez and don’t give a toss about the rest of old Mercy’s kit because it was objectively worse than it was now (and the main talking point about that is ‘well Mercy was weak but Mass Rez is way more fun than spectator mode Valkyrie’). If you are going to deny that this is the state of Mercy discourse and has been for a year I am going to call you out as a liar.

“Because since this is my opinion it is automatically fact, and if you don’t agree with it, you are a liar”.

Hmmm yeah seems legit. I gave multiple sources. You have given absolutely none, yet I’m the one that’s the “liar.” But then again, apparently that’s all you have to go with, since you can’t give me any actual proof of your previous claims regarding “Mass res never coming back”.

#legitimacy

[RDK-11145]

In the interest of my post above, I’m only responding to the sources you gave plus a couple of other tidbits. Not interested in talking in circles anymore.

r/Competitiveoverwatch - Thoughts on Mercy

This is from two years ago and references Zen’s discord orb as being 50%. This hasn’t been the case since S2. Mercy was reworked in S6.

Revert Mercy healing nerf, remove rez

Mercy’s healing wasn’t the problem, trying to fit an ultimate into a 30 second cooldown ability was. Without rez she’ll be a consistent highly mobile support with a powerful damage boost and a strong sustain ult. She will still be viable on a lot of mobility focused maps within almost every team comp, and be a good place for less mechanically skilled new players to get a feel of the game.

This thread is from 5 days ago, and the revert being mentioned is bringing her healing back from 50 HP/s to 60 HP/s, not the reverse.

Overwatch Forums

This is closer to what I was asking for, although it should be noted this isn’t someone who was posting for #RevertMercy but someone who just wanted Mercy nerfed. Hence the downvotes.

I know Mercy had 50 HP/s healing initially? I never disputed that fact. Just that it was a meaningful application of the term revert as far as the forums are concerned. Like the only people before you who I saw considering that as a revert were trolls.

@TobiasAlec-11572

All of this is irrelevant to our discussion.

Not irrelevant. Very central to understand what Jeff said and the connotations that it carries. Mass Rez should come back (revert, if you will) at all costs. To which Jeff replied:

Again, to actually make my point you have to understand what people were meaning when they said revert. It wasn’t healing rate. It wasn’t the removal of bhop. Both of those would have been nerfs that made the hero less fun (that is the MO of a theoretical revert, no?). They wanted mass rez back.

I don’t know how many other ways I can say this tbh and we are just talking in circles. You have given me nothing to believe that Jeff was referring to anything else, as anything else didn’t come close to addressing peoples’ concerns (and a revert doesn’t even imply 50 HP/s if we grant your premise, since Mercy got that buff very early on in the game’s life). As I noted before Jeff never used the specific verbiage of Mass Rez but “revert” essentially carries the same connotation because of the state of Mercy discourse, which was even more stratified back then.

If you want to address my thoughts on Rez and Mercy I’m all ears but this is my last response to this semantic song and dance.

[MegaLopunny-11165]

There’s no way the devs haven’t read the same 5 complaints spanning 3k posts in the mega thread. They still haven’t said anything more than what they said last time because they don’t want to deal with it anymore or at least not now.

[RDK-11145]

Yeah I think they attribute the win rate a lot to the whole “people don’t know how to play against her”. Aside from having her kit automated she is everything you want in a high WR hero. Burst heals, burst damage, stuns, low mechanical requirement, hard to punish, punishes hard. Etc. She’s like playing into old Symmetra on a 2CP map where you need to outplay her hard to kill her and her team but she can kinda just wander around and accidentally get value out of a stun or boop (or just have someone die by walking into a car wash).

[TobiasAlec-11572]

In the interest of my post above, I’m only responding to the sources you gave plus a couple of other tidbits. Not interested in talking in circles anymore.

Because I completely destroyed your arguments. But carry on.

This is from two years ago and references Zen’s discord orb as being 50%. This hasn’t been the case since S2. Mercy was reworked in S6.

Um no? Mercy is mentioned at the first sentence. Please pay attention…

https://gyazo.com/f964ffdc1978c1b3199c23bd5351c74d

This thread is from 5 days ago, and the revert being mentioned is bringing her healing back from 50 HP/s to 60 HP/s, not the reverse.

You never specified how far back to revert. But okay.

This is closer to what I was asking for, although it should be noted this isn’t someone who was posting for #RevertMercy but someone who just wanted Mercy nerfed. Hence the downvotes.

That is irrelevant. I’ve given you at least two valid examples. I couldn’t care less if you were looking for some pointless #revertmercy tag, or how well-recieved it was. That is completely irrelevant to the discussion, and I have proven my case.

I know Mercy had 50 HP/s healing initially? I never disputed that fact. Just that it was a meaningful application of the term revert as far as the forums are concerned. Like the only people before you who I saw considering that as a revert were trolls.

You disputed that “everyone assumed that revert meant mass res”. I proved you wrong. Plain and simple.

Again, to actually make my point you have to understand what people were meaning when they said revert. It wasn’t healing rate. It wasn’t the removal of bhop. Both of those would have been nerfs that made the hero less fun (that is the MO of a theoretical revert, no?). They wanted mass rez back.

I don’t know how many other ways I can say this tbh and we are just talking in circles. You have given me nothing to believe that Jeff was referring to anything else, as anything else didn’t come close to addressing peoples’ concerns. As I noted before Jeff never used the specific verbiage of Mass Rez but “revert” essentially carries the same connotation because of the state of Mercy discourse, which was even more stratified back then.

If you want to address my thoughts on Rez and Mercy I’m all ears but this is my last response to this semantic song and dance.

You linked to a generic statement of Jeff referring to a revert of any kind.

1. He never specified that it this meant EXCLUSIVELY as mass res.
2. He reverted Mercy regardless, bringing her healing back to 50hps.
3. YOU assuming that he meant mass res is your own problem, that’s not what was written in that post. Therefore, it is plausible to assume that mas res could return via another revert, since Jeff’s previous promise of a revert (generic) was broken. Making any other assumptions like that is subjective and cannot be proven.

If you want to address my thoughts on Rez and Mercy I’m all ears but this is my last response to this semantic song and dance.

Well, If anyone ever tries to assume that Jeff “actually said that Mass rez is never returning” as if it’s fact and not just their own opinion, I’ll be more than happy to remind them of how incorrectly false that is, like I’ve done just now with both facts and data. Let me know if you ever need a “refresher!”

[Prisinence-1109]

After about an hour, I’ve done it again… I’ve counted the number of posts relating to Mercy over the course of 2 days. I also noticed that the number of threads complaining about Mercy spam increased today. I’m also not doing this again, I have a headache now.

Thread Type	Number
Overall	1220
Overall Mercy	121
Non Mercy Mains & Balance	22
Mercy Mains & Balance	36
Mercy Idea (Mercy Mains & Others)	18
Revert Mercy	5
Troll	4
Miscellaneous	24
Mercy Spam Complaint	12

Mercy Threads - 9.92% of threads

Thread Type	%
Overall Mercy	100
Non Mercy Mains & Balance	18.18
Mercy Mains & Balance	29.75
Mercy Idea (Mercy Mains & Others)	14.88
Revert Mercy	4.13
Troll	3.31
Miscellaneous	19.83
Mercy Spam Complaint	9.92

The 14% from earlier? That was more than usual. I didn’t even get how that was spam before, but since the number is so low over the course of a few days… I don’t think I need to say anything else.

[Quest-11845]

Yo you got faith. That’s cool. But there’s no reason to think mass rez is coming back, there is many reasons to think it won’t.

I would suggest you move on, but you seem faithful.

Hopefully you get the direct addressal of your interpretive/semantic inquiries one day. I doubt it though, as much as I doubt mass rez coming back.

[TobiasAlec-11572]

Yo you got faith. That’s cool. But there’s no reason to think mass rez is coming back, there is many reasons to think it won’t.

I would suggest you move on, but you seem faithful.

Hopefully you get the direct addressal of your interpretive/semantic inquiries one day. I doubt it though, as much as I doubt mass rez coming back.

There’s no reason to think that Mass rez will not come back. There are many reasons to think that it will return.

I would suggest you agree to disagree with people who hold an opinion different from you. As for me, my view will stay the same.

They’ve already reverted her healing, so the idea of a “revert never happening” is irrelevant. I wouldn’t be surprised if they revert more elements of her kit, and I await to see what they are.

You have doubts, I do not. My opinion is not changing, and I assume yours isn’t either so we will agree to disagree on that, simple as that.

[BadWidowEU-2419]

Make a thread with this data You could educate a bunch of people.

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

I think you also have to consider how often Mercy posts are front page, though. That’s why it feels like a flood. Sometimes there’s so many Mercy pages that are on the front page that it’s just annoying. It’s more about the posts that remain relevant and updated, not just the overall created

[TobiasAlec-11572]

Good data. Now people can stop making those ignorant “all Mercy threads talk about the same thing / all of them want a revert” statements. I had a feeling that it was mostly a myth. Thank you for your hard work and dedication in confirming this!

Seriously you need to make a thread about this stuff. The entire community needs to know about this so they aren’t constantly making blind assumptions on things they know nothing about…

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

I wasn’t aware that the main idea of a thread determined what was inside it. A ton of mercy mains still post and request reverts. Just because it isn’t the main purpose of the thread doesn’t mean it isn’t within the threads themselves

[TobiasAlec-11572]

I wasn’t aware that the main idea of a thread determined what was inside it. A ton of mercy mains still post and request reverts.

Show me data and I will believe it. Otherwise, your opinion is just that. An opinion with no facts. Stop trying to generalize an entire playerbase…

[Prisinence-1109]

Some of them do suggest it, but it’s not obvious enough for it to be considered the main point of the thread. The majority of said threads didn’t mention a revert, though. There were actually a lot of people who said that they would prefer if they got rid of Rez.

[Remedy-12480]

Eh, my personal opinion is Mercy mains are entitled.

I get that OW is an FPS game that caters to a broader audience than most, but Mercy just completely dominated the scene.

Now that Mercy is “situational” instead of “must pick” or “good for any comp” people are up in arms. Even though EVERY other support has been that way.

[Quest-11845]

There’s no reason to think that Mass rez will not come back. There are many reasons to think that it will return.

No. There isn’t. It’s been months now and mass rez has not made a return. Most argue mass rez is a good option because “we know it isn’t game breaking.” Well, right now, Mercy is finally at the most arguably balanced position since the rework. That’s good. It’s not the time to be like “BACK TO SQUARE ONE! GIVE IT LOS CUZ I THINK ITS FUN!” That’s not how it works.

I can also cite all the circumstantial and contextual reasons as to why I would believe mass rez not returning more than them doing that sort of revert. Clearly though, that type of information is lost on you.

I would suggest you agree to disagree with people who hold an opinion different from you. As for me, my view will stay the same.

I don’t even understand wtf this is supposed to mean tbh. You come across as being wordy for the sake of it, and instead of dazzling people with your brilliance, you are confusing them with your bull…

They’ve already reverted her healing

That means nothing tbh. Otherwise we’d be popping battles with RDK going “OMFG THEY FINALLY REVERTED MERCY” instead of complaining about the lack of mass rez in the forums.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they revert more elements of her kit

I would be. I truly would be.

You have doubts, I do not. My opinion is not changing, and I assume yours isn’t either so we will agree to disagree on that, simple as that.

Yeah I know, that was what I meant with my references to faith, addiction, etc, etc. I know you’re not going to change your mind. Just like I will still tell you regardless of all that, that you are wrong in oh so many of your interpretations.

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

Right. Act like you there aren’t “revert mercy” posts everywhere, cuz it doesn’t really fit your agenda. Over the past 2 days, there’s haven’t been many revert mercy THREADS. There’s a difference. Don’t really bother reply to this point because we’d be going in circles and i’m

Not interested in talking in circles

[Prisinence-1109]

I think you also have to consider how often Mercy posts are front page, though. That’s why it feels like a flood. Sometimes there’s so many Mercy pages that are on the front page that it’s just annoying. It’s more about the posts that remain relevant and updated, not just the overall created

There is a large number on the front, sure. But I’ve also only seen 1-3 threads in my top 10 posts at a time. It doesn’t even look like spam. You can say that there are a large number of them, sure. The issue is that spam is a bit of an extreme. On any other forum I’ve been a part of, they have had issues with true spam attacks.
**Said threads also aren’t usually made solely by Mercy mains. If you’ve had a different experience, I’d like some proof. Take a screenshot of your top 10-20ish threads every 10 or so minutes.

Make a thread with this data You could educate a bunch of people.

I guess I could… I might in a few days if people continue to refer to it as spam. I will do another recount at that point… I know I said I wouldn’t, but someone has to do it.

[TobiasAlec-11572]

No. There isn’t. It’s been months now and mass rez has not made a return. Most argue mass rez is a good option because “we know it isn’t game breaking.” Well, right now, Mercy is finally at the most arguably balanced position since the rework. That’s good. It’s not the time to be like “BACK TO SQUARE ONE! GIVE IT LOS CUZ I THINK ITS FUN!” That’s not how it works.

I can also cite all the circumstantial and contextual reasons as to why I would believe mass rez not returning more than them doing that sort of revert. Clearly though, that type of information is lost on you.

Here we go again…

Give me a link of Jeff confirming that “Mass rez is never coming back.” I want a source of him literally saying those words as you claim.

Right. Act like you there aren’t “revert mercy” posts everywhere, cuz it doesn’t really fit your agenda. Over the past 2 days, there’s haven’t been many revert mercy THREADS. There’s a difference. Don’t really bother reply to this point because we’d be going in circles and i’m

“This is my opinion. I have no proof, but it should be considered as fact. If you disagree with it, you have an agenda.”

Seems legit.

[ƗƘƘƗǾ-1847]

I think their main issue is that some people think she’s unfun. Mainly these mains on the forums find her unfun.

Fun is subjective, so… it’s a battle of opinion. That’s all this is, really. Mass Rez had a lot of issues statistically, and so does new Mercy. So they’re nerfing new mercy into where she belongs and the forums are up in arms about it because her being nerfed makes her unfun. But rez will always make her a good pick, and they might as well remove it.