If so, why?
As someone who doesn’t play Symmetra, I understand her survivability is low. However, I can see if she got buffs, people would be upset by them, as her turrets are still a consistent annoyance to walk near and to make her stronger without taking from the turrets would be seen as unreasonable in some players eyes.
Because people accuse you of trolling just by picking her, and that’s been that way almost the whole games life.
Because she’s been trash tier almost her whole life
Because she has the shortest range for her primary being only 12 meters. Death sentence. Add to that it starts off at 60dps with perfect pin point accuracy and takes 5 seconds to ramp up levels. You need to be a human aimbot to get massive value on dodging enemies. Also her projectile is amazigly slow.
So with an incredible slow projectile, an incredibly short primary fire, and turrets that jingle like bells and attach with loud clicks and clanks, and a man sized portal which is situational what to we have left?
A hero that is used as a taxi and usually the first one to die in a fight because she needs to be so close at 12 meters zarya outranges her everyone outranges her and bullies her for many reasons throw in supports usually dont heal sym for some unknown reason tunnel vision on tanks most of the time.
Life is rough for symm players. Believe.
She needs her beam to be small buffed to 15 meters minimum. This will make her playable and the entire team will stop yelling “GET OFF SYM or reporting you” that’s what we deal with because of her nerfs.
Reverting the infinite TP would be a good start.
Then faster deploying TP.
Then faster orbs.
Then golden glove.
Yes she definitely does need changes.
She’s got 2 big core issues in her kit which make her unable to reasonably independently do her damage hero job unlike literally the rest of the damage heroes (even the so called “utility heroes” like mei and sombra).
And saying “this is a team game” doesn’t excuse having a hero’s value/ability to contribute locked behind teammates’ input.
buffing sym doesn’t mean you have to buff turrets. those of us actually thinking about changing sym in a fair and balance healthy way want (at least as a start):
for a bit more sustain for the most part. making primary less situational is definitely something that should happen, but not as high priority as the above given that sym would still generally be using tp + orbs more.
We are also fine if they need to nerf down turret dps if they are too strong in combination of the above because we want more agency to the player in getting value → no “oh sym’s oppressive in lower ranks, but trash higher ranks” issue for balancing.
will people still cry even with all these considerations? most likely because they’ve already ingrained their hate for the hero deep in their hearts and don’t bother alleviating their ignorance on the hero calling her “no skill” and “no aim” despite thinking she’s still somehow supposed to be played like old sym even though there’s been a rework. but the fact of the matter is they’re being unfair and unreasonable if they do cry out against changes that put sym on par with other damage heroes.
I actually think Sym mains don’t know how to play Sym properly and are still trying to play her the way 2.0 played.
I’m not a Sym player but when I try her out, I usually end up destroying the enemy team, especially in Koh maps.
It’s not hard to get her beam charged up in close quarter maps, and if you can track, you delete the enemy team quickly. Always results in a play of the game.
Of course you shouldn’t use her 100% of the time, in every map, in every scenario, vs every comp.
No hero should be used this way.
There are a growing amount of Symmetra players that are willing to lose Turrets if it means she can be more than niche, not a burden to the team and be more viable more often.
Nope.
It’s impossible to play Sym3 as you play Sym2 for a few reasons
Sym2 and Sym3 are as different from each other as Genji and Doomfist. Or Widow and Ashe. Or sombra and Tracer. Just because they share a theme don’t mean they can be played the same way.
We had a dynamic way to play her. Then they nerfed TP.
When people bring this up I get angry. What a stupid concept, that people somehow STILL haven’t learned to play a character after 1.5 years.
No.
I think they need to revert the beam damage nerfs. They nerfed its hitbox and the turret damage, which is ok, but the M1 DPS nerf was overkill.
Howdy, I used to play Sym in the masters zone. Basically it boils down to a few issues.
Lack of survivability.
—low health and large head hit box (see hit box comparison chart)
Low mobility
—only mobility is tele, which requires a cast time and is often more useful as team utility or turret bomb cheese.
Low range
—she operates in a range closer than zarya.
Low fire rate
— while her orbs are large, their fire rate and projectile speed is tiny compared to her peers. Such as junk and pharah.
Turrets don’t do their job anymore.
— the turrets used to be decent distractions that could effectively watch Syms back. However as splash damage becomes more common, barriers get weaker, and their damage nerfs. They are only distractions now.
TLDR
Syms current state is just ground pharah, slow junkrat, or bootleg zarya with a defensive ult.
This sums it up very well. Thing is, characters can and should have weaknesses. Problem with Sym is she’s all weakness. Something needs to be strong.
Giving her back the 5 turrets would be a start
Others have shorter and deliver less damage.
Combined with other elements, including Sentries the damage is pretty high. It also takes less than 5 seconds to reach maximum charge.
25 meters per second. On par with Junkrat’s and more than triple the size with similar splash radii. Similar damage output too.
Half of this is hyperbole, and the other half is a playstyle that should be and continues to be punished for playing it wrong.
This is the same argument that Brigitte players used to justify needing more durability because their attack range is 6 to 8 meters and they need to attack at this range to trigger Inspire - which simply not true.
If you want argue about the problems Symmetra has, you need to learn how to play her correctly, you need to learn that blindingly rushing with LMB held down is not proper or productive Symmetra play. You need to argue with facts and logically consider what advantages she has. You haven’t done that. You used hyperbole and false information to make points that don’t when presented with counter arguments.
Symmetra cannot compare with Mei or Sombra in terms of utility. Mei is not a utility hero, but a defensive one. Sombra has problems of her own, but most fail to understand what they are.
Outside of her effective range is another confusing element. Symmetra has no falloff on her RMB, and much like Junkrat, Genji, Hanzo, Orisa, Pharah, and Mei can launch projectiles outside effective distances of most hitscans without fear of damage falloff. They are subject to travel time, however, Junkrat’s grenades will explode after hitting the ground twice. Symmetra’s projectiles don’t suffer this issue and yet deliver similar impact.
So again, what is the effective range? 8 meters from a Sentry that slows down a target by 20%. Or is it the “Tracer-distance” of 12 meters with her LMB? Or is it the 100 meter distance of Symmetra’s projectile?
Specious argument. Symmetra’s changes were to streamline her builder/defense functionality and limit her Support-based functions as she was moved from Support to Defense, and to give her something of a better use beyond the first point on payload maps. Seeing an overall increase in damage and win rating and better functionally showed some success. Torbjorn’s rework was primarily done in preparation for Brigitte and to, again, move Torbjorn’s Support functions (giving away armor) and heavy reliance on level 2 and level 3 turrets towards a more defensive build. Those changes didn’t see much improvement in success for Torbjorn, but given that he has had better success rates and more favorable picks over Bastion and Symmetra, this wasn’t all that surprising.
Would require a damage reduction then, and perhaps the inability to charge them up leading to one specific charge.
Teleporter will always suck and will always lead to very specific strategies, you can argue for something else that fits with Symmetra’s theme and character.
Shield will always remain superior to basic HP numbers and for something like Symmetra, this is another useful perk.
The primary is fine. It isn’t anymore situational than Reinhardt’s hammer, Zarya’s alternative fire, etc. etc.
As a Builder, like Symmetra, her getting value out of Sentries is useful and for the most part, they are fine. Get used to smart placement.
So many offense heroes have similar issues. Not a viable argument.
So many heroes have similar issues, not a viable argument.
This is false, and ignores that Tracer, Brigitte, Reinhardt, Winston, Sombra, have similar constraints.
False again. Her charge rate allows her to flood an area with as much as 10 projectiles each dealing 15 damage splash. Or you can hold a charge for as much as 120 damage and 60 splash.
40 damage per second and 20% slow per turret equates to 120 damage per second and 60% slow. When combined with additional options, that’s an enormous amount of damage and lethality for a builder to provide. The fact that the damage is coming from three different sources and the possibility of three different angles means that they’re going to get their damage in well before they’re destroyed.
More worthless hyperbole.
It was originally 6, and the damage from the sentries would need to be divvied up back to 6 sources so each individual source would deliver less damage. It would not be a good thing.
Oooh someone came to fight.
I thought this was obvious but I guess I gotta explain it. My argument is not saying all these weaknesses need to be addressed. It is the total combination of them that causes the character to be subpar.
Each one of those characters has either high survivability or high mobility.
— also tracer and sombra do not use beams. They do have effective range beyond 12 meters.
—Winston’s beam also does cleave damage.
Sym only has 70 ammo per clip. Each orb takes 10 per shot. Each orb also takes a second to charge and a little under a second to recover. Making her dps while using the orb a little under 120.
Junkrat for comparison fires a projectile every .66 seconds. Much faster than Sym.
You are also ignoring the fact that the hit box for the orb grows with charge time. So the smaller projectiles rarely land due to travel time.
Also a direct hit from Sym is a total of 120. Not 120 and the splash added.
It’s 60 direct + 60 splash.
This requires each turret to be alive and within range of one another. Most players don’t do this unless they are turret bombing. (An already resource intensive tactic).
If you read what I said, it explains that the high amounts of splash damage causes the turrets to not live long anymore. So usually they won’t be effective at stacking their damage. At most Sym usually has 2 turrets to protect her in a tiny AOE. Unless they are all stacked together.
— hint: just punch them if they are. It kills all of them.
Next time might wanna do some math about abilities.
A revert on some of her past nerfs seems necessary. Almost every aspect of her kit has gotten nerfed lol. The changes to her ult seem completely unnecessary. Her primary damage was nerfed (in her ideal meta btw) but there was no compensation. I would have preferred they sped up her ramp time in exchange for the primary damage nerf to make her feel more consistent. The turrets nerfs are whatever, people don’t like them so I guess that’s ok.
Yes, she needs to be brought back to the support role and reworked as today’s current version of support heros >Healers<
here are two concept examples: Idea For New Support Hero and Symmetra Sup Rework Idea
Keep her rushed offensive ideas, which were minor anyways, for a new future offensive hero.