Do you guys notice any rigging?

General Discussion
1

I mean do you feel any kind of rigging in your gameplay and/or matchmaking?
Do you notice more/less rigging in casual vs. comp modes?

Just wondering, because some friends were looking to grow their content channels and get into OW. They were asking around if this game is rigged and/or if any rigging is noticeable. They are NOT into games with SBMM or it’s derivatives. For OW, it’s hard to get a clear answer. And OWL certainly wouldn’t make sense if there were any kind of rigging built into the engine, or live on the ladder.

For your references, see the countless videos on SBMM+CoD (easy search). Note also that the following exist. Not sure if any are implemented but some research showed they exist:

Personally, I do feel like some of my games are rigged. But my friends aren’t sure if it’s worth getting into this game if things are rigged. If anyone can show how it can’t possibly be rigged that would be great news - and I’ll tell my friends immediately to pick it up.

Please keep it on topic, and discuss. Thanks in advance!

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Let me be clear the term rigging is trying to set an outcome of a match. (which isn’t the intent of these patents.

US20200114268A1 & US9789406B2 & US10322351B2 & US20160001182A1 & US20160001186A1 - This is a system that matches people based on variables. Same as most systems that are trying to create better games. There are examples of it being used for microtransactions which if proven wouldn’t be good in a competitive setting.

US10857468B2 & US20190091581A1 & US10561945B2 - This is dynamic difficultly stuff. This also includes things that you’d use in a PvE or Player + AI PVP. This is the kind of stuff CS:GO uses when adding bots. If these things were added to the player of the game they would be recordable (on PC) as it has no aim assist.

Firstly, I’m a little disappointed I was told you had 8 patents, I hoped you’d have 8 unique patents but most of these are just updated versions or slight modifications to protect others from modification and theft of the idea.

The first patent is a system that integrates microtransaction and other variables into matchmaking but in general, the intent is to have better matches not rigging matches for a win.
As for Overwatch, I very much doubt much of this is implemented if at all because players were never matched on playstyle to give good comps in open queue and role queue doesn’t need that. I doubt they match players based on skins though they could but could isn’t enough. They could match players based on the number of letters in their name.
Being matched based on skill level and latency does exist tho but is normal.

The second, if used in a PVP setting like Overwatch would be brutal… problem is this kind of stuff is useful and normal in mobile games that use AI to fill matches to give players a good experience. (I believe Call of duty mobile does this? not sure). This could be a thing that was being used in an Overwatch Gacha game. A lot of the implemented stuff here would be provable/seeable and you could see no-regs being evidence of this but I’d say it’s not enough evidence.

Does this prove or indicate rigging in Overwatch… Not at all.
The problem is Activision has mobile and free-to-play games which both patents would be needed for and protecting these ideas are patents is best practice. I feel you’re using them to create a narrative that isn’t fair.

Like if you want to prove could Blizzard/Activision rig their games?
Yes, they can… so can anyone that uses close source code. Patents don’t change that because the said patents could be used for many games and in a normal/fair way.

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As for do I think there is rigging in Overwatch games outside of if I win I’ll get harder opponents till I lose. I don’t.

How do I account for huge win streaks/Losses? Some days I play better others I play worse. If for 3 days I play at my best after I’ve been playing bad = Win streak and if after I play at my worst = Loss streak.

That said that could be the “system” doing its job and making me think I’m playing at my best or worst.
Since alteration of players’ aim/lag is recordable and noticeable and I’ve never seen that outside of the norms.
It leaves the matchmaker to place me with 11 people to rig my games… I don’t think the matchmaker is that good to predict 11 people’s current skill level because it can’t predict if people are having a bad day or drunk etc. or if someone has manipulated it via smurfing or throwing.
I just don’t see how a system could be good enough to rig matches over and over when it struggles with other things so much.

I think unbalanced games are down more to the matchmaker being unable to gauge how good a player’s current skill is, based on the data it has. Whether this is because there a smurf, thrown, drunk, tired, lagging, their mom is using Netflix, they are playing at a friend’s, they are memeing over try harding.

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In summary, the patents don’t prove anything and I don’t think player experience can either because everything can be explained away as a human element. Not to say rigging doesn’t exist but without evidence, I’d rather just play my best and enjoy the game rather than explain every loss/win is down to some “system” over my input vs a player’s input.

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I think it’s best you ask your friends to just group up and play for fun.

There isn’t any rigging, forced matchmaking doesn’t exist (Otherwise if the AI really wants to decide you should lose, it will make sure you’ll lose. Same with winning yet we don’t. It’s entirely down to your performance.). You can get players that are throwing/deranking (To which, report them and move on). The game always try to make sure its as fair as possible, that unfortunately also means you get games where you either roll or rolled. Starting on comp gives you fairer matches but that also means the disparity of skill performance will eventually seperate them. So it’s just better to QP, or find friends to play with while hosting their own games in the lobby and inviting their subscribers or people watching them to play together.

Honestly, if your friends want to grow their channel. Focus less on the games that is somehow rigged and actually focus on their personality as well as having fun factor. Otherwise, if they’re chasing trend, getting into Apex/Valorant/Pubg/Fortnite is the safer choice.

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Please don’t let your friends put on the tinfoil hat because they can’t accept wins and losses in game.

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I’ll keep this separate from my main post but your stats on Overbuff indicate you perform well below average for a lot of heroes in your rank

Take your 2 most played heroes in comp…

Avg heals
Brig Yours - 3768 Overbuff Bronze avg - 7688
Lucio Yours - 4578 Overbuff Bronze avg - 9873

Then if you look at Quickplay you have played 3 hours of Ana yet you avg 1k of healing on a hero that avges 7-10k of healing. (Note you can get 1k self heals per 10 mins via self nads)

I would say your experience is more about you underperforming than the game being rigged. If your games are being rigged then record your games where your only healing this much and show us because I can see why you lose a lot and don’t really see a reason why you would win much at all?

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Thank you for a good reply.

The OP has been trying to peddle this “rigging” conspiracy for a long long time.

This is a person that has played nearly an hour of Brig this season and got a 29% win rate… Which to me suggests they are not playing the hero well.

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I have never felt the game was rigged ever. I won because I played well, I lost because I played poorly. Sometimes you get a bad match up, sometimes you get an easy match up. The matchmaker isn’t perfect, but it isn’t rigged

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And it is usually only a good or bad match up because others player well, or play badly. How teams work. You are only as strong as your weakest link and all that.

Sadly, and I hate saying this as it just feels rude, but the OP is just a bad player. They need to either focus on having fun, or on improving their gameplay dramatically.

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There is no rigging…plenty of conspiracy theories though

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That alone makes it sound like a no for them.

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I went 5 losses on tank in placements this season just gone, but I never felt like it was rigged because I played terribly

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Whether or not this game is actually RIGGED IDK but it does feel like it. I have so many games that feel absolutely unwinnable. Bc of my team
replays:
N46DC3 1M8TTC ANMBHM ZCXQBV 3SJT5N 9SWMWN XG4MKR XJSW94 3NAZ3V CK7TCS BY0EAT AF6NNP

the best solution seems to be to play with friends

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I posted my OQ placements the other day again and my RQ ones were no different…25 (technically 27 because I did 2 extra support) perfectly normal matches…there were two romps in all of them and a third that started to look bad in R1 (koth) we ended up counter-romping

Even with great matchmaking you will end up with bad games…there are so many variables at play in this game…it doesn’t have to mean rigging

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I honestly feel like my games get harder when I lose. Last night, I lost only two games in 3 hours, but there are days when I lose five in a row and feel like every game was harder than the last.

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To be clear, I don’t have a problem with skill based matchmaking and I think the game would be worse off without it… But skill based matchmaking, and trying to proactively guess what someone’s skill is, are two separate topics with very opinionated ways to implement them. It feels very “rigged” when trying to rank up an alt account because, unless you soft throw, the game very quickly rockets your mmr upwards as you overperform in those lobbies and the following games get unreasonably hard for how low elo they are. I’m using the air quotes because I wouldn’t say that it’s an intentional rigging, because the games are still absolutely winnable and even if you lose you should still be averaging your WR out positively, it just makes for an annoying and grindy sideeffect. And I don’t blame anyone for thinking it feels like a “rigged” match.

I think Overwatch is too aggressive in trying to guess what someone’s mmr should be, and very slow in actually pushing their sr towards it. This might also be why win/loss streaks feel so common. Who knows. However I can tell you this from my personal experience:

Of all my accounts, the hardest games are on my lowest rated account, not my highest rated account. It’s not a small sr difference between my accounts, either. The games aren’t hard because of “bad teammates” or whatever :poop: people come up with to cope, but because it literally feels like the game is overestimating how good the account should be, and giving very tough opponents to boot.

It almost feels like they’re trying to deter you from smurfing by giving you hard games. If that’s the case, it’s a very weird solution. Again… who knows. Not me.

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Rigging in Blizzard has existed SINCE World of Warcraft. It is just not as bad HERE in Overwatch.

Me, I’d like MORE matches to feel closer to “organic”. But after some time they quit doing that. For me, about after 3 hard losses I get a Winning group no matter what. Maybe because after the first match being a steam roll, and myself no longer trying to WIN. I find that I finally get placed with a strong team that has one goal and that is to get a hard-win.

(despite I played with a carefree attitude).

I dont like “cheese” when it comes to a game. Maybe if the over-time clock was still in Over time for a bit longer, ults wouldn’t be what ENDS the match. But actual clutch-plays.

It is obvious because a person can watch their replays and notice one team is ulting significantly MORE, than the other.

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I think its less the matchmaker itself and more of a combination of being unlucky and bad data being fed into the matchmaker. (This isn’t taking into consideration that some players might just be bad, but I’ll continue.) One of the biggest issues about smurfs/derankers/boosters/etc. is that because they’re deliberately going out of their way to “trick” the matchmaker, its causing the data it likely relies on to become completely muddied. It starts to see players who perform exceptionally well (or terrible) as normal, and so the matchmaker starts accepting unbalanced games as balanced ones because its seen it enough to consider it acceptable. Which of course, would lead to wildly unbalanced games that can be seen as “rigged”.

I don’t know the inner workings of the system, but that’s just my hypothesis on what’s actually be happening. The matchmaker more than likely works just fine. I think that confirmation bias from unlucky games leads some players to the conclusion of “oh its rigged to keep me down”, not taking into consideration the fact that if a player tilts and gives up from an unlucky game, they’re likely to lose their next ones because of their mindset.

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No. As frustrating as it is to admit, I just wasn’t better than the peasants that are red team.

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Depends on what kind of rigging we’re talking about. There’s heavy handicapping in the matches where sometimes when you win and gain MMR instead of getting relatively better opponents and teammates, you’ll instead get worse teammates and relatively same/better opponents. Sometimes the teams can be relatively around the same MMR for example around where 3000SR players’ would be and then while one team is very steady, the other team has a 2500 and a 3500 players mixed in between or even multiple ones of these. This is what players call "rigged matchmaking, but it’s just plain heavy handicapping matches because they want to keep the queue times at bay, and if the matchmaking tried to find 11 similarly skilled players the queue times would skyrocket for everyone higher tiered

Also there’s a massive difference between Comp and “Casual” gamemodes regarding this. Comp has way more strict rules in terms of the matchmaking variables like for example it has to estimate at least 40% winrate for both teams or the match is unable to initiate. Similarly the SR range differences are way more limited than in “casual” gamemodes, where 2300SR players can sometimes play with 4200SR players because of additional pity timer variables that start kicking in when someone has sat in the “casual” queue for enough time

Another thing to note is that handicapped matchmaking is considered plain “rigged”, even though technically it’s not, because in Overwatch the team with less varying players in it and the better steady team comp wins most of the matches by a considerable margin

EDIT: Here’s a great example of handicapped matchmaking going haywire in a “casual” gamemode: https://i.imgur.com/4pbSoUJ.png

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None of this happens.

You win a game and all is good.

Then suddenly you lose, and it must be because they gave you bad team mates… Yeah right…

That picture isnt handycapping… that clearly QP

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