One thing that would be really good for improving Reinhardt’s “tankiness”… Is disallowing the tips of guns THROUGH his shield… too many times, heroes like Hog can just W key in and put the gun behind my shield, rendering it as ineffective as if it weren’t there at all.
It doesn’t even make sense.
My boy needs a lot of help… but collision here would be a big quality of life improvement.
Nah, DPS players want 6v6 too. The queue times were largely only a problem for high ranked DPS players in role queue.
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How were near 10 minute queue times for DPS in QUICKPLAY “literally fine”? Are you mad?
Out of the two of us it seems I’m the only one using my brain.
I think doubling the required amount of tank players per match, the LEAST played role in the game, would SKYROCKET queue times.
Not true. DPS player here, I don’t want 6v6 back, in part because my queue times in QUICKPLAY were near 10 minutes after role queue was added. It was not “only a problem for high ranks” it literally was a problem in quickplay
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Instant tank queue, 3 minute support queue, and 6 minute damage queue for a typical quickplay match was not fine or equitable. Having a second tank didn’t make tanking feel better, because now each tank player is at the mercy of another tank player’s decisions, giving them less agency over what hero to pick, when to go in, when to go out, all the while diverting even more resources from supports to do other stuff. And you’re right that when it worked, proper tank duos did feel very good, at the expense of every other role feeling MISERABLE playing into two tanks worth of shields, damage mitigation, CC, ults.
I’m speaking as someone that has played plenty of tank in both 6v6 and 5v5; 6v6 doesn’t make tanking feel better, it removes tank players’ agency, it hurts queue times, and at worst it turns the game into Barrierwatch where nothing is able to happen until ults are used.
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A 6v6 game mode when?
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Are tanks OP or are tanks mains leaving because they are just punching bags? You are contradicting yourself. Tanks need help.
So true I have more fun evading players than straight up fighting.
Any possible hope I could have squeezed out of this was pretty much ruined by this one part:
Some of the recent metas have brought into question the different ways we look at balancing heroes that could be considered niche. There are heroes that the community is ok with having both a high win rate and a high pick rate. When Reinhardt hits a 60% win rate, which is considered very high for us, and is played often there are few complaints. When a hero like Roadhog does this (he recently topped out at around 54%), the community reacts… differently. There are heroes that the community deems more ‘fair,’ or at least less frustrating, than others. The mechanics of some heroes, especially at really high levels of play, require us to pay more attention to them. We still want every hero to be competitively viable, and we love that some of our heroes can be the right situational pick, but we think it’s healthier for the game for us to proactively, and in a more timely manner, manage certain heroes and prevent them from dominating.
Basically, if we happen to main a character that’s “hated” for WHATEVER reason, including totally irrational ones that aren’t even relevant, tough luck. We made the mistake of not enjoying a “popular” hero like we’re supposed to. We fell for the devs’ trap of making a hero that we find appealing. We’re allowed to suffer and there’s apparently nothing wrong with that. Our enjoyment is just not important. Wonderful.
Not even I can force a smile after reading that little confession.
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you know its bad when content creators made a a temp arcade game mode thats better than base game
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surely it wasn’t because of the fact that thegame had become stale ue to being abandonned. " Out of the two of us it seems I’m the only one using my brain."
i think this is all a ripple effect that originated from the design philosophy behind 5v5. this is because the way that tank works in 5v5 does not at all match the way they were designed in 6v6.
see, in 6v6 you have two tanks and remember stuff like double shield? those tanks were doing their job… guarding their allies. all the cc that existed in OW1 was designed to help tanks do what they are supposed to do:
- control aggro
- defend allies
- defend / retake zones and space
with 5v5, this is not to say that 5v5 is a bad idea, but the design of overwatch and all of its tanks just do not really work for 5v5. this is why tanks like reinhardt are beloved and ball hated, reinhardt is able to do his job as a tank, and ball is not really a “tank” and doesnt exactly play like one.
as a result, a lot of the tank roster has too much focus on dealing damage and racking up elims rather than the original cores of their design which was holding zones and guarding allies. they start playing like Damage heroes but with exhorbitant amounts of hp.
if you give them even more health and survivability, the game is going to develop into TankWatch where damage heroes do nothing but sit behind the tank and tank heroes do all of the heavy lifting in the game since they will essentially be unkillable without massive coordination and effort.
the root of the issue is tank design philosophy and how it has been drastically moving away from what it means to be a tank, and has instead focused on making tanks solo champs of the match that make or break most engagements.
make tanks tanks again and leave damage heroes the way they are and the game will do much better
take a look at another blizz game in fact: World of Warcraft, and watch how Tanks work in that game. for dungeons, they have 1 tank, 3 damage, and 1 healer. their role is very specific. even in PvP, tanks serve a great purpose in the battlegrounds that they dont seem to serve as equally in OW
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No, tanks need buddies.
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Or that sure. Would love to see that
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The designers have to realize that 5v5 is what’s actually the problem here. It’s just an endless game of nerfs and buffs that ultimately solves nothing. This is why I say 5v5 is bad balance and it’s a bad philosophy.
All 5v5 RQ does is it creates an asymmetrical format and unevenly distributes roles in the battlefield. 4 Supports, 4 DPS, and 2 Tanks; it’s uneven and forces Tanks to be in an impossible position where they have to be powerful but not too oppressive.
No matter how many times Tanks get buffed, it’s Tank counters will always be buffed every step of the way. This doesn’t solve counterswapping at a high level and makes the solo Tank experience STILL miserable. What’s even worse is that other roles play a factor.
11 Seasons in, how can I expect things to change when a lot has been the same.
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You can’t say you’re using your brain when I literally said DPS QUICKPLAY queue times were bad after role queue was added. That’s in 2019. The game wasn’t abandoned in 2019 but nice try. They literally added the 1-3-2 experimental card in LESS THAN 6 MONTHS of role queue being out because queue times were already bad. The fact that it was implemented within less than 6 months means it was talked about long before that. Quit using the content drought as an excuse for bad queue times when DPS quickplay queue times were bad before OW2 was even announced and before Echo was released
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Maybe don’t make a game designed all around 6v6 and detract an integral part of that team lol. Tank is miserable and healing is miserable because you are tied to one tank. I don’t see how minor tweaks every season is ever going to level back to the original blueprint of the game.
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Two tank issues:
- Tanks complain they have to counter swap
- Tanks don’t feel tanky enough
My suggestion:
Give tanks a new passive that reduce damage tanks do to other tanks by 50% (other damage apply normally).
This will make tanks less interested at bashing each other, thus reducing need to counter swap. Also they will overall take slightly less damage.
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adding role passives is both the laziest way of trying to make 5v5 work and the thing that makes it most obvious that you have no idea how the game and the characters work
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its like they only now realized that hog is fun to play but not against, same for ana
I didnt claim all DPS players want 6v6, and it depends largely what you consider to be long. To me 10 minutes isn’t all that unreasonable.
My primary purpose of that reply, though, was that it’s not just “DPS want 5v5, everyone else wants 6v6” - there’s plenty of DPS that want 6v6, and Im sure tons fo tank and support players that like 5v5 as well.
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