For some reason rock isnt a projectile. Dva and sigma cant eat it either.
Pretty sure thatâs the point.
There already is no delay between Deflect>Dash currently. Why would they add one? On that note, if theyâre trying to make it âeasierâ by removing the wall climb factor, why would they add a delay which would cause Genji to be more vulnerable after deflecting? How long is an âacceptableâ delay?
Factually incorrect.
At which rank? Also, a very flimsy argument, as I could use the same logic in Bronze with Torb.
53%, not bad. but uh, isnât the lowest win rate in masters only 44%?
This is realistically wrong though. In my experience, and many others, as soon as I pull the blade, Iâm CCâd, Trans goes up, or Iâm instantly focused down. Without Nano, it is extremely hard to pull off even a single kill with the blade unless youâre smurfing. That said, Reaper/Visor could get the same treatment then, how about instead of yelling âDie die dieâ while firing, he says it, and then starts firing, that seems fair, and comparable to what youâre suggesting.
This is simply not true. Genji has the most mobility in his ultimate, thatâs why he gets the Nano. If you want to do a side by side comparison, a Nano to Reaper ult will kill anyone in the area, including naded Roadhogâs sucking air. The problem? Reaper canât really move while ulting, so a single Lucio boop, or subsequently any Stun, kills 2 ults. Whereas Genji can move, quite far, to or from the fight. His mobility is what gets him the Nano, not his ult is the best ult. Pharah has a better ult, but sheâs immobile for the duration.
Please, name those that canât escape? My list includes Zen (trans), Ana (sleep dart), and Hanzo? I mean, Sym has her turrets, as does Torb, so while I donât exactly think that Torb has an escape, he can definitely put up a fight, especially if heâs got his Fired Up, and Sym can teleport/turrets, which is actually pretty beneficial for her team since they slow the ulting Genji while ticking away at his health.
Yes and no. Iâm actually concerned at what rank youâre playing, as the âteam Gravâ usually isnât an issue, since Zarya shouldnât be waiting for 6, but can easily win a team fight with 3. This is also counter intuitive to your point that even a single kill can win a fight. Thatâs not always the case though, right? As Reaper, you could kill 4 of 6 on the enemy team, but if your team is absolutely garbage, you could still lose the fight; that being said, this doesnât happen generally in the higher ranks, but it has happened.
actually reasonable point.
Good. You made value as Genji by making the enemy support use one of the best defensive ults in the game.
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I think the worst part with regards to Zen getting an even harder time is that Trans is one of only two support ults fairly efficent dealing with Dragonblade. That basically leaves us with Lucio (Iâm sure people are going to say âbut stuns!â, but fact of the matter is DB is one of the most lethal ults in the game so stuns is obviously not enough).
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How is that even a point? I mean, I understand the value; Iâm not sure how it applies, as Trans also negates most ultimates that weâre discussing. Also, if my value and contribution to the team fight is pushing out Trans, then what value did I really get? Especially if my team is now losing the team fight. The next team fight? Sure, but the enemy team is still packing a support ult, and possibly 4 other ultimates.
Genji ulting isnât exactly 1 for 1 value when it comes to Trans. Sure itâs probably the best support ult, though Mercyâs is pretty good too, but if the Zen exists, heâs supposed to be target number 1 anyways, barring any positioning errors on the tanks behalf. In a perfect world, itâd be kill Zen -> Blade -> Win games. Thatâs not always how real life works out though, right?
Iâm still confused why youâd say this at just Genji; Trans is great, and it does get used for more than just Blade. I still donât see how itâs any part of this issue though.
Deflect is the reaction, thatâs why it has no cast time, although I agree the manual cancel is a very bad call by the balance team
So is your team. By dragonblade forcing a zen ult, it opens up new opportunities for your team.
Uhm, you were complaining that as soon as you pull the blade trans goes up. If it does then it is a fair trade ult for an ult.
And I wouldnt even dragon blade in the first place when you are 100% sure that trans is ready.
On the other side, I wouldnt waste trans if I knew genji has blade.
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People forget you could cancel it since day 1 with a dash. There is still a small delay after cancelling before you can fire. Plenty of time to throw your stuns at him.
Yeah no? He has the highest mobility out of the whole characters honestly. Both vertical and horizontal which makes him harder to take out than ur average hero so just because he has no deflect for a few seconds doesnât mean uâre totally gonna kill him.
I mean⌠Genji could already cancel his deflect before this buff without using dash. (Without getting a delay)
So practically this doesnât change much at all.
It actually does not help me in any way, because using primary or secondary fire will ALSO cancel it. Iâm used to already pressing it so i can directly shoot at the end of my deflect, but now it just cancels mid.
Annoying if iâm honest.
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ya and his lmb shurikens even tighter. on top of more damage even though he already has a 1shot combo, and buffing hanzo, really shows the disconnect of devs to the playerbase and their lack of ability to balance this game properly. if anything genji probably needs a complete rework tbh. not a buff
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Sure, but if the âmain objectiveâ is getting the Trans, thereâs an inherent flaw. Genji canât kill anybody in the Trans, but they can all kill him, affectively, the second healer can ignore healing for a few seconds and focus on dealing some extra damage, in an already 5v6. Itâs not an ult for an ult, itâs a team fight for a possibility of winning the next team fight.
No, what I said (not a complaint, btw) is that there are a few different things that happen when I, personally, use a non-Nano Dragonblade. Which was the point of the conversation; itâs not an âeasy killâ at any moment. It has nothing to do with value or trade offs, it was a simple point about the different things that can and do happen during Dragonblade.
Because both are completely avoidable in realistic situations right? You only ever pull Blade when the Zen is dead or you somehow reach through the ether and know that he doesnât have Trans? You also wouldnât Trans a Grav/Dragon because the Genji might have Blade?
See the upside of Nano-Blade means thereâs a nade. Which can, and often does, lead to some nasty plays, as it completely negates the Trans while allowing the Genji to get some work done, and has the added benefit of healing the Genji (usually) in the process. If you really want to discuss all the different value and trade offs, we can, but this probably isnât the place for it.
Actually, not really. A 1-shot combo still requires those parts to be correctly aimed, and line up properly, with a bit of prediction involved as well. Hanzo buffs to Storm Arrow? Why not? They nerfed it a while back and it got pulled back a bit too far, now if youâre not headshotting with Hanzo, youâre very ineffective, even with Storm Arrows.
The main issue with Genji is that heâs sort of with Doomfist, in a cycle of abilities. You poke with your shurikens, you try to see if thereâs any opportunities that come from poking, until your team pushes forward. If none arrive, you try to take advantage of the mobility, and make opportunities. Problem is, when youâre poking, youâre not a âreal threatâ, and most body damage will be healed quickly. This is also charging the ultimates of the supports on the other team, which is your main concern when using your ultimate. Giving Genji more âpokeâ damage makes sense, as instead of being an ult battery for opposing supports, itâs an actual threat and requires the Genji to aim. Landing all 3 as headshots still isnât a kill mind you, as itâs still only 180 damage, which when you compare to Asheâs dynamite is only 5 more damage, and much harder to land.
First, I was responding to the claim this change âjust makes him easier.â And it clearly does much more than than.
And second, I am not convinced it is Blizzardâs goal. They increased the time on deflect, so they want to give him the option of getting out early if he wants to. And that would be fine if it didnât also remove any chance of counter play.
It would still be easier. The question is, are you trying to make it easier or vastly more powerful? If it is just easier, the wall climb adds an effective delay so you need to add the delay to keep the power level the same. If you donât add the delay your are effectively removing a delay and thus making the ability stronger.
How do you figure? Seriously stop and think about this for a moment. If you make something easier to do it takes less skill to do it. If it takes less skill to do something, more people can do it and there is less possibility for error. That is effectively a buff to the hero. So, making a hero easier does effectively make them stronger.
Did you seriously just ask that and still quote the reference to masters. For reference he is the 3rd:
*When averaging all ranks.
*Masters
*Diamond
*Plat
*Gold
So, again. Not garbage as some like to pretend.
Wow, what a weird way to try and deflect. He wins MORE than half the time. And he is played a lot. This makes any claim that he trash tier a joke.
One of two possibilities here.
- This is a perception bias. You remember the times it went bad more than the times it didnât. It is kind of a human nature thing. When something has a larger emotional impact (like frustration from getting shut down) it makes a larger impact on memory. This skews the view of how often it happens.
- You are using you blade very badly.
It is easier to shut down either of those than a Genji blade. A lot easier. Again, there is a reason everyone gives the nano to blade more than to Reaper or Soldier. Tell you what, go ask the next Reaper or Soldier player how they feel about defense matrix, barrier, Mei wall, etc during their ults. If they really got more value, they would get it more often. Donât get me wrong, they can get value from it. But not as easily as Genji.
Bingo. His mobility means he is MORE likely to be able to capitalize on the Ult.
I really think you are confusing maximum damage potential and effectiveness. Genjiâs ult is LOT more effective. He is more mobile and can chase, he is harder to shut down, and his ult goes through barriers. Genji Ult is the stronger ult because of those reasons.
First, leave the âwhat rank are youâ out of this as it is not constructive one way or the other. Second, no I do not think a 6 grav is needed. The point I was intending to make is that it is realistically easier to get a blade to kill multiple people with the whole dash reset then it is for Zarya to get the same number of people in a grav. Be it 2, 3, 4, etc.
Yes, bad teams can wreck a good play. I had one just the other day where I opened the fight with two kills, then fought and killed two more while my team fought 5v2 against Doom and Moira and lost. It happens. But, it is not the norm. If you start with even a single kill, you will win the fight more often than not.
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Recently thought of coming back to OW, but since Genji was the reason I stopped playing Zen a long time ago, it looks like Iâm still not going to come back for real.
RIP. Genji needed a buff, but the deflect change is release-Brig levels of broken in the hands of a good Genji.
Edit: Just give him his 3rd jump back.
Iâm out of these forums again. Byeee.
Oh, and Moiraâs orb changes (healing mostly) already kinda ruined her for me, so I guess itâs ok that youâre dumpstering her. 
Personally, Iâd think making her attack more like Zarya/Symm and maybe giving 10 dps woulda been better, but hey, gotta keep that easy targeting.
Really disappointed with support balance recently.
isnt kind of given that a âbuffâ would make a character better lol. you just spent all that time arguing with a person that doesnât even make sense
I donât mind that it comes up instantlyâit is supposed to have âoh crapâ utility where they see fire coming at them and no way to get out of the wayâyes, Genji is not supposed to simply get hit if he gets caught like thatâthe deflect is totally meant to enhance his survivability even more than his movement already makes him
So working as intended there
But I agree that one needs an option to kill them before they swift strike or maybe make the dash have a smaller hurtbox so it isnât an automatic hit
i dont think deflect is the right buff. its still a strong ability when used right against ultimates and stuff
It isnât even latency necessarily. The netcode has lag compensation built into it, in order to facilitate âfavor the shooterâ. Thatâs why Genji has the inititive going in and coming out of deflect without much room for counterplay. It actually gets more favorable for the Genji as their ping increases.
I donât think Iâm gonna appreciate that timing deflectâs duration is no longer reasonably possible, as the best counterplay was a well timed projectile.