Even the average D.Va does 6,000 more damage than the average Winston.
You’re just so wrong its laughable.
D.va is just the most consistent Tank, her utility is exactly what a tank is supposed to have, versitility and survivability. Its the other tanks that need to be brought up to that standard.
Rein - bugs galore
Road - DPS with survivability
Orisa - shield offers her survivability but 400 HP is pathetic combine that with no mobility and she is done
Zarya - probably the only other true tank however her full power laser is preventing her from having a more tuned kit
Hammond- situationally good. Especially for area denial but not much else. (Doesnt feel like a ‘team player’
Winston- pretty effective but very simple kit.
The tanks don’t need reworks they just need rebalancing. Supports can take tanks out these days and D.va is the only one thats still remotely fun to play.
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Winston ult is laughable in damage, and considering you’re pulling averages that means self destruct is in there too.
This may be a problem because of the high damage creep of dps. Orisa used to be a fortress but now the shield is laughable. Not to mention all tanks can get melted regardless which is why dm is a thing. Maybe other tanks need to be able to defend against higher dps?
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It doesn’t have a cooldown, it has an animation that is significantly shorter than D.Va’s cooldown. D.Va’s resource is also drained by its deployment animation and rein’s barrier is all encompassing in damage prevention sans Winston’s gun, melee, and projectiles that travel through. DM does not block two of these either. DM will not start recharging until after its cooldown is fulfilled, either, which prevents flickering.
That’s fair, but the fact that this occurs at all limits the “all encompassing” DM in a vacuum with unlimited damage blocking potential because that does not happen (and Zarya is also directly gaining damage from her damage blocked)
Didn’t say it was
And that’s fine. D.Va does not either.
DM functions as a cooldown that has to be tracked. It isn’t that difficult to know when that charge is low. And why would it? D.Va should only very situationally fully deplete DM anyway.
So can rein and Brigitte, Orisa and Winston can barrier dance and zarya’s bubble is all-encompassing. And the first two even get third person to help with that. Not saying they shouldn’t, but
At that point, why bother? Again, DM still lasts too long and is still too oppressive that you want to double its cooldown?
in a vacuum
Barrier technically body blocks.
It is. It even cleanses stickies
doesn’t it cleanse anti heal, too?
I’m not trying to manipulate you.
I play both. Both are excellent peelers. That’s it.
Sombra is meta in pro play right now. In fact, she even sometimes subbed out D.Va. Brig has little to do with it and if she does, she’s still getting nerfed.
Lucio was just buffed. Twice.
Not referring to that. I’m referring to the Lucio clinging to corners and bends automatically change. Lowered skill floor and skill ceiling
You said it yourself: Hog is bad, Zarya is map-dependent, and Hammond is new and largely considered to also be… Kinda bad.
D.Va is the only generalist, and does not usurp Zarya on her maps.
4 second dm days?
That’s an exaggeration.
Again, this doesn’t necessitate a rework.
I can only think of a couple of generalist counters for most heroes. D.Va is just also a generalist.
So is D.Va. Hog was even being run with orisa in pro play. Zarya dominates certain maps. Hammond is… Hammond.
Not enough to make D.Va oppressive, and even then this occurs in other heroes (zenyatta comes to mind). Eventually dm will run out, pressure will be put on supports, or D.Va will (in lower mmr) get distracted. Or, she’ll hold dm or stand all the way in my face and I’ll laser her out of mech.
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Thats exactly it, theres been a huge power creep in DPS both from damage and support roles, and the tanks just havent been tweaked to compensate for it.
I think if D.va even got remotely nerfed she would be completely useless
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I just don’t think there’s much that can give. D.Va is a Frankenstein’s monster of a hero and the synergy of her abilities is what makes her viable. She depends on equilibrium in abilities a lot more than other heroes, many of whom have power shifted into one or two
Ah not again - leave DVa in peace, witchhunters.
DVa had enough reworks and nerfs.
Stop scapegoating her because your main is weak right now.
Still need more tanks also.
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Why even is the infinite part of dm being brought up? That means most tanks can’t deal with the general amount of dps flying around.
Dva is just a bandaid. She only gets 2 seconds and then she gets melted like Hog and Hammond.
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Nice edit not posting the actual stats there butnquoting around them.
Fact is Winston doesn’t have near the PR Rein does in GM and your statement is not supported by data.
You’ve been nothing but dismissive of every other piece of information provided that doesn’t support your theory.
Dva is a viable off tank who has been reworked with 3 completely different play styles and been nerfed multiple times to get her into a viable state.
You’ve suggested everything to nerf her kit in an effort to literally both not be able to tank in any meaningful way nor pull off damage in any meaningsul way.
But go ahead, continue to use pure pro play stats to support an argument that is completely fallible.
And while you say Zen absolutely deserved the nerf, you completely misunderstood the context provided.
The nerf was a minor affect based on pro play for pro play and had less of an effect on lower skilled players outside of pro play.
If tou’re Using pro play to justify a nerf expect minor results.
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I dont think that was meant for me, right?
Lol Winston didn’t even have a higher pickrate than rein in high ranks during dive, as I recall
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I’m not convinced we’re at that point yet but if a character is worth running on both sides, regardless of if their counters are there or not, then something is off.
Most have at least a few. Meanwhile DVa is the biggest generalist counter for most of the roster.
Zarya and Hammond get run with Dva quite frequently. As for Orisa/Hog, there are many reasons why I want to wait for the upcoming Hog changes.
It’s close, and trans is an ult that isn’t up every fight, and only has to be forced out once. There’s also shield bash, but the effective radius is significantly shorter. And DM won’t stay depleted forever; you can expect it to partially recharge during the time it takes to make a big play.
Prior to the boop damage nerf I’ve suggested extending the cooldown after DM use slightly; might be a good way to balance things if the hog changes are insufficient.
I’m agreeing with what you said. Why is Dva one of the most popular tanks now? Dm? It got nerfed hard and somehow is still needed.
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If I eat an ult, I feel like its the person who threw it in my directions fault more than my own, they should just be lucky I wasnt on Genji!
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The problem is that most of her counters are unviable. I also forgot reaper as a theoretically generalist counter, but that’s honestly me just forgetting that he exists because he’s bad. D.Va’s biggest stake in hog v d.va is peeling for other heroes but being hooked herself is very dangerous even with the lower damage.
I suppose we’ll see.
Most are about equal. D.Va boasts several niche and map-related ones as well as 3 generalist counters plus Hanzo to an extent, two of which are just bad. D.Va also has unique weaknesses inherent in her kit, including her center mass crit box and high vulnerability to heavy staggering, which are exploitable by pretty much any hero on the roster.
I’d love to have the chance to actually have a reason to get good at hog and Hammond. D.Va and Zarya pretty much cover my off tank bases.
And its depleted meter has to be timed perfectly to catch projectile ultimates, and will be ineffective vs the many channeled ultimates.
This has bigger ramifications than I think people think. It makes her an even bigger ult battery and discourages using short bursts of DM-feathering (well, what you can do with its current cooldown at least) in lieu of holding it down, which is already suboptimal play. This also lowers her skill ceiling.
You must have missed the season where D.va was fighting Moira in every tier (except bronze but pls) for that #1 pickrate spot.
D.Va has always had a very high pickrate. And Moira isn’t exactly OP… At all. So idk how this makes a case for anything. And if she was competing with Moira, that means it wasn’t her broken 400A 200H 4 second DM iteration
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I don’t think any team “needs” d.va to win. However, I’d love Self-Destruct on E.
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Thank you for making a very obvious statement. I too, am aware of this.
it was from March 6th, I believe these were the statistics after her missiles got a nerf, but could have been the season before that.
Trickle down meta isn't real - #5 by JeffreyKaplan, so you can see.