Copy paste, since I’ve encountered this argument that “Well Snipers exist in other FPS games, therefore you can’t restrict their gameplay”.
When literally every other modern FPS is restricting them.
I guessed as much lmao.
That’s actually the short version.
- COD/Battlefield have severe damage reduction at range, with extremely bright “Scope Glint”. BattleField even has Reverse damage dropoff at closer ranges.
Unless this is something in the new (Dead) battlefield games, this isn’t a thing. I have thousands of hours in BF4 and BF3 and those are considered among the best battlefield games. Snipers have 0 penalties beyond slow fire rate.
Yeah, ive seen that topic b4 , forgot it was yours.
I’d have to look around, but it seems like it was a thing 7 months ago.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=896TiEgMCvg
But even if they took that out, CoD or Battlefield is more of an arcadey deathmatch game, with much larger team sizes. Rezzing downed players that can crawl, and universal rez. Along with Assault Rifles that kill very quickly.
Are you actually using Modern Battlefield for your arguments? The last couple games were derided by every popular BF streamer and known player. The most popular battlefield games literally contradict your argument. You’re using the least popular/most controversial ones for your point…?
I’m guessing you never played BF3/BF4 so let me tell you. Snipers were popular, but an M16A3 (rifle) was a better choice than a sniper rifle. Why? Because in the time you take to kill 1 guy with a sniper rifle, I can kill 2-3 with a rifle.
The problem with OW is there is so much sustain that the only things that get value anymore are 1 shots. Giving this deluded perception that 1 shotting something every 1 second is somehow powerful, when many of the other heroes in the game have the capacity to kill 5 things in that same 1 second. The only people who don’t like 1 shots are support mains who want to live some power fantasy of making everything immortal.
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That’s correct. I haven’t played CoD or BattleField. I’ve been focused on other, often more obscure, shooters.
For instance, you’ve probably never played Hawken, Dirty Bomb, S4 League or PlanetSide.
But that doesn’t really matter, because CoD/BattleField also have near instakill Assault Rifles, crawl/universal rez. A tiny bit of element of surprise from an assault rifle players, is solid counterplay.
Meanwhile a Soldier76 can do just about nothing to a long range Widow player besides hide. And even if you flanked into close range, the Widow player can just bail on the duel with grapple.
It’s really not that difficult to adjust the defences and offenses to the point where you get an ideal ratio composition durability.
Heck, if the argument is “Things won’t die fast enough if you nerf Snipers”, then that’s just evidence of limited counterplay options.
Hanzo is one of the easier dps to duel IF they are missing shots.
- Support main.
No, I have not heard of a single one of those games. Why? because they’re all obscure and no one played them for a reason. There’s a reason those games are obscure niche games and CoD/Battlefield (with 1 shot mechanics) were dominant FPS of their time - now overshone by battle royales.
The argument is thing’s won’t die fast enough if there aren’t 1 shots. You focus on snipers but the game is littered with 1 shot combos for a reason. It’s the only thing that can overcome the sustain creep.
Your idea does not work in this game. This game has a damage and a sustain creep problem. They’re adding in immortalities to compensate for all the Damage creep, but the damage creep was added in to compensate for all the sustain brought in by the goats era (read: brigitte). The only solution is to nerf everything across the board, but blizzard clearly follow the philosophy that “players hate nerfs so buff strats instead of nerfing strong strats”.
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Yes, the main overall design constraint (assuming the devs are factoring in high ELO) the devs have is if the meta compositions get too durable/flimsy, as it relates to teamfight durations. There’s a bunch of ways to fix that. For example:
- Lower Tank health
- Lower Tank Healing Received
- Convert Tank Armor into HP
- Lower the effectivenes of Tank/DPS defensive/escape/sustain abilities
- Raise the cooldown of Tank/DPS defensive/escape/sustain abilities
- Buff Support Firepower
- If the above doesn’t work, Lower some of the heals on Ana/Bap/Moira
- Reduced amounts of OverTime
- Also they could offset reduced mid-combat heals, by giving everybody an out-of-combat regen passive and/or out-of-combat healing-received boost
It’s really not that big a deal.
For example, here’s some fixes for Suzu, Rez, and Lamp.
Fixing how it feels against "Problem Heroes"
- Suzu: All instances of damage above 30 damage are reduced to 30 damage
- Lamp: All instances of damage above 75 damage, are reduced to 75 damage
- Rez: Basically Lifeline Rez from Apex
Additionally, I really doubt the devs would go removing the oneshot anyways. If it were up to me out would look more like this.
Hanzo
Primary Fire:
- Reduced headshot damage at long range, to the point it doesn’t oneshot
Storm Arrow:
- 50 damage each
- 3 total arrows
Lunge
- 2x charges of Lunge (or 225hp)
Widow
Grapple:
- Lower cooldown, by some large fraction (alternatively, 200hp)
- Breaks if Widow takes 15 damage while using grapple
- Doesn’t gain momentum during the first half second of pull.
Every bullet point you made there makes sense. Do you know what the problem is? Blizzard has clearly shown they’re not willing to make any form of substantial nerf to anything. They’re only willing to buff or release broken heroes (then at least nerf them into a semi-ok state).
The mere fact that blizzard stayed obstinate through the entire #DELETEBRIG debacle to the point they drove their game into the ground proves that blizzard is too stubborn to implement a single meaningful change into the fundamental core mechanics of this game to fix things.
Until and unless that happens, you CANNOT remove 1 shots from this game. You will end up with GOATS version 2/2/2.
Oh and before some support main comes in here complaining about DPS. I was a Rein/Winston main during the delete brig fiasco. Quit the game during it because main tank became completely unplayable. You were just a punching bag to be stunned and cc’d on cooldown. Everyone ignored the outcries during that era as “DPS crybabies” when many main tanks suffered even WORSE. My last few months of OW was spent on Doomfist 1 shotting things because tank became more miserable than any ow2 player could ever imagine.
You could say I’m pretty good at “guessing” the types of things the devs are open to doing.
Hanzo and Widow need a few changes - #56 by GreyFalcon-11737
So your asking to make them trash heroes, what do they both have if it wasn’t for the 1 shot potential… Nothing… She isn’t even that frustrating to deal with, problem is most don’t want to play angles, when ever i am up against a widow i make sure i am not in her field of view while she isn’t my target… Don’t know why scrubs are always whining about other heroes instead of their bad positioning… If you get killed by widow or hanzo you should not of been there
They could have better cooldowns/tools for less range, theres ought to be a way to compesate their smaller range elsewhere so they are less specialist characters but still viable enough and still one shot every now and then.
Its not just about bad positioning, tell me what can you really do on maps like Havana/Circuit to not peak their huge sight lines?
Sombra/moria is good at circling to deal with widow, monkey if i plan to attempt to dive sniper, orisa if i plan to make widow run to health pack, rein if i plan to let my team deal with it… I do like sniping widow with zen, i usually pop her when i notice she is distracted/focused on someone else, i play the readjust aim time after widow shot… Most heroes i pick depends though i would prolly do torb at time high health and his e keeps from getting 1shot and 2-3 shots usually kills a widow and latency being a thing you can either kill her or get her low before she reacts…
Problem is most wont do anything if they won’t get a kill, every time she has to dip to recover is seconds she isn’t shooting at you so it is a win if she hides or retreats and is a fool if she goes to peak when she is low.
U listed some picks that might do something but none of them make her less of a strong pick on those maps, none of those ive seen make a good Widow switch and its still mostly just up to the better Widow to win the game there.
On said maps, diving with anything that isnt a Sombra is not really possible and if ure playing Ball, well, even better for the Widow’s team.
It is not about the map it is about how to make it less annoying, you asked what i would do and have done… I don’t really care what enemy does and to mention i like payload maps so i do really find those at issue, i have a systematic approach to each of those choke points on both maps… You play them enough you know what both sides will do whether attacking or defending… I find it easier attacking and more enjoyable… I also add a point system to my opponents on who is the biggest threat and focus them like a hawk all the way down to the weakest link…
Aight, you’re making that a lil too much on your personal experience, my point is more of in a broad sense, in some maps, on a high enough lvl where snipers (mostly Widowmaker) can be quite dominant, theres a very high chance the match is decided by wether you have the better Widowmaker.
Thats my big issue there, its that sniper maps get to be quite obnoxious and rather one sided and that they should probabbly do something about that by changing the snipers.
Blizzard doesn’t have to merge anything. The way hanzo and genji play are completely night and day. Hanzo having one sword slash every 3-5 seconds is not going to suddenly make genji irrelevant. It’s not like hanzo is gonna suddenly become a diver hero with dash resets on kills lol. He’s still gonna have to play it safe using his bow, the sword is just a defensive ability against divers or anyone that gets too close to him. Considering it would only activate every 3-5 seconds, it’s not like you are gonna walk around the map using the sword 24/7.