HotTake: Snipers are strangling Playerbase Growth

Am I talking about Snipers generally as a gameplay mechanic in FPS games? Kinda. Snipers in FPS games are perhaps the most controversial design issue in FPS games. With almost every FPS game still struggling to deal with designing them to this day.

As the Team Fortress 2 Developers described, poorly designed Sniper counterplay:

" When we started working on TF2, 22 years ago, we decided to examine the things that affected how players felt about their deaths in TFC. Our starting theory was that, for death to be a positive experience, players had to feel like they could have avoided dying if they’d done something different. We found two factors that seemed to be important in light of that theory:"
“The first was whether or not you understand what killed you. If you don’t know what killed you, that death is failing in providing you the feedback it’s supposed to, and you won’t be able to figure out what you could have done differently.”
"The second was whether you felt you were actually engaged with the person who killed you. Dying to someone you weren’t engaged with, especially when you were already engaged with someone else, was aggravating. Even worse was dying to someone who you couldn’t have engaged with, even if you chose to.
“Unsurprisingly, we saw that these deaths were highly aggravating to players, and in sufficient number caused new players to stop playing entirely.”

That said, when it comes to Sniper counterplay in Overwatch it is dramatically worse designed than pretty much any other FPS games, including Tactical Shooters. And this is because Sniper counterplay in Overwatch is excessively Frustrating and Frequent.


And before we get started with all this, I would like to point out This is NOT a “Balance” issue, or “Tournament level PickRate Issue”. This is a “Playerbase Retention and Growth issue”, related to the drastically important concept that “Videogames are Supposed to be Fun for the Players, and Profitable for the Developers”. And while Balancing may be the method, it’s not the goal here. If the game isn’t Fun, then Balance doesn’t matter. (And “Novelty” should be considered just another component of “Fun” anyways. The idea that Fun is divorced from Balance is just a fundamental misunderstanding about what Game Design is all about.).


Here’s some examples of Sniper Counterplay in other FPS games, and how they prevent it from being Frustrating and Frequent:

Counter-Strike:

  • Nearly all of the guns can deal with an AWP/Scout user in under half a second, aside from AWPs being so expensive that it’d be bizarre to use them on a very frequent basis. And by the time people get AWPs, you can just use a smoke grenade to deal with it.

Valorant

Team Fortress 2:

  • If a Sniper gets rushed at close range, they are are almost 100% certain to be dead. Add in spies that can instant kill. (I.e. Nothing like a grapple). For example, get a Spy with a Enforcer Revolver, Spycicle, and Dead Ringer, and there’s not much that Sniper can do about it. And if things do get really bad, then AutoBalance will fix it.

Apex Legends:

Halo Infinite:

  • Snipers have a very obvious “scope glint”, and taking literally any damage de-scopes them. Additionally they get only 8 bullets total, and the pickups are usually in dangerous locations. Along with usually medium range map design, and the ability to avoid certain maps entirely.

By comparison,

Overwatch 2

FRUSTRATING COUNTERPLAY

  • Hide behind a barrier/wall 90% of the game.

    • Not Fun.
  • Ignore the main fight, and play sniper-whack-a-mole the entire match, and pray they don’t selfpeel or get peels.

    • Not Fun
  • Snipe Snipers with more Snipers

    • Only the Sniper players get to have Fun

FREQUENT COUNTERPLAY

  • Snipers are in the top 5 most used heroes in both high ELO and all ELOs.
  • Unlike a lot of other games, that severely limit the occurrence of Sniper weapons, you can use an instant kill Snipers throughout the entire match, with unlimited ammo.

Now here’s a big list of issues associated with Snipers:

  • Tank Diff: Not diving the Sniper frequently enough, or not putting up a barrier constantly to block the sniper. Assuming that would even work. Heaven forbid you picked a Brawl Tank that doesn’t have a persistent barrier, you must be throwing. Report them.
  • DPS Diff: Oh, you picked a hero that doesn’t deal well with Snipers, well guess that means your team should yell at you. Report them.
  • Support Diff: Oh, you can’t outheal instant kills? Well you just must suck at healing then. GG Guys, report the healer.
  • Team Comp Toxicity: Oh you didn’t pick an AntiSniper composition, or just have a worse Sniper than theirs? Enjoy your free loss, and a boatload of toxicity.
  • “Stomp of Be Stomped” Matchmaking: Where so many games regardless of ELO are defined by Sniper Diff. Regardless of how well Role Deltas stack.
  • Hacking and XIMing and Smurfing: Pretty obvious how Snipers cause a ton of problems here.
  • Immortal Ball:Ball has pretty crazy uptime right now, and these Hog/Ana nerfs. I view this as the developers not learning from Geoff Goodman’s mistakes on designing LaunchBrig to counter Tracer. Except now it’s Ball vs Snipers.
  • Nonstop Mercy Patching: Gotta make sure that pocketing and boosting Sniper charge speed by 30% isn’t an issue right? Oh you finally killed the pocketed Sniper? Lol Rez.

And on that last point, let’s explain a “cycle” I’ve been seeing:

  • Snipers are a problem, but the devs won’t nerf them.
  • So the Devs buff DiveTanks to deal with the Snipers.
  • Then Supports mald because they are getting dived so hard.
  • So they buff the Supports to have good survival and peeling.
  • Then the buffed Supports peel for the Snipers.
  • So the Devs buff DiveTanks to deal with the Snipers.
  • …
  • Incidentally, LifeWeaver has a 30m range LifeGrip that Invulns and goes through a Winston Bubble.
  • …
  • Development Costs. With Snipers the way they are, you have to guard every possible angle within a map against too much Sniper sightlines. Which becomes even more of a problem with something like a Petal Platform can bypass a lot of that. And even if they went that route, with exorbitant in time, money, and staff resources. It very likely wouldn’t even work. All of these development costs are a drain on other potential game improvements.
  • Less Problematic Metas: Seagull was scratching the surface on this. The game is generally a lot more fun when Rein, Winston or Genji are dominant, especially at high ELO. Why is that? Because it rewards aggression with fast plays.
  • Which can get stagnant with a lot of downtime hiding from snipers, in excessive twitch-poke playstyles. (Oh you peaked for 2 seconds, lol you’re dead).
  • And the opposite, is all the downtime in excessively defensive comps, just cooldowning each other to a standstill, until you get enough Ult to break the standstill.
  • Reduced DownTime: Another thing which should be Overwatch 2’s major advantage over other competing games is “reduced downtime” between fights. Battle Royales and CounterStrike type game modes just have a ton of time were players are either looting or spectating their teammates while dead. Overwatch fixed a large part of that with improved Queue Times, but if you’re spending a ton of that time looking at a wall or hiding behind a barrier. That’s really weakening that strength Overwatch 2 should have.
  • Bad Maps: The vast majority of complaints about Push and one of the main reasons 2CP is not a valid game mode anymore, is due to a lack of cover from Snipers. Throw in the other maps listed above and that what out of 29 maps, 11 of them are “Sniper maps”? (Havana, Colosseo, Circuit Royale, New Queen Street, Junker Town, Busan, Hanamura, Volskaya, Temple of Anubis, Horizon Lunar Colony, Paris.) Over a third of the maps are “bad maps” because of Snipers? Push is a “bad game mode” because of Snipers. Supposedly you have some sort of “large map gamemode” coming up. Which just screams “Sniper problems”.

And I really gotta wonder. Why is the development team is doing everything they can not to address these issues directly? Are they aware that these issues even exist? Have they rationally decided that it’s “worth it” in terms of lost profits, lost players, and lost development resources, after totaling everything up. Has everybody in the executive leadership team really stopped to think about how this dramatically important issue could impact Player Retention, Playerbase Growth, and Profitability?

Because, to be honest, I have some pretty big doubts about that, with the OW2 Alpha coming out a Year ago, and there has been a whole lot of nothing in dealing with Snipers directly.

Perhaps they’ve convinced themselves that by reducing the only fun counterplay against Snipers to be “More Snipers”, and scaring off a lot of players who don’t want to deal with that, that you must appeal to all these supposed Sniper Mains, which are probably mostly just DPS mains trying to salvage some fun from poorly thought out game design. But would be willing to play a much wider variety of heroes, if they weren’t penalized so harshly for it. If so, that’s just ignoring the concept of Survorship Bias.

And this patch, they basically nerfed Cassidy/Ashe, and every persistent Barrier Tank. So that’s just going to make the issues more extreme.

And you know, that’s so galling about all of this? We can see how they’re trying to solve the frustrating aspects of the game with oneshot combos, barrier spam, and stun spam. They’ve reworked nearly half the hero roster in the basis of lowering frequent frustrations. But they can barely lift a finger when it comes to Snipers, and pull all sorts of directly conflicting mental gymnastics with Sojourn. And the only reason she’s not being complained about currently is because Widow is a larger problem.

Really, what gives? Why? When?

Checking the calendar, they’ve got about 30 weeks, and 6 major balance patches, until the expected date of BlizCon 2023 and potentially the launch of PVE, in November. (If not sooner).

They’re running out of time, they’re running out of budget, and they’re running low on community goodwill. How much are they willing to lose over this? Since if they whiff on the PVE Launch, they probably aren’t ever going to get another opportunity for play growth like that ever again. Especially if they’ve killed the momentum before then.

They should be doing everything in their power amp up their playerbase size and playerbase retention before PVE launches. Or the entire point of making OW2 will be a wasted opportunity.


Figured I should post this sooner than later, and work on finishing it up before I post it on Reddit.

144 Likes

Clips go here

:scissors: Alec Dawson, Widow has been talked about internally

This clip in particular comes off as a focus on solving the winrate and pickrate of Widowmaker and other Snipers, without addressing the “Anti-Fun” aspects of Snipers in Overwatch. Which seems really bizarre given that they’ve basically reworked half the hero roster on the basis of lowering frustration levels, and gotten rid of a ton of oneshot combos and stun combos. Why is there a double-standard being applied to Snipers? I for one find this sort of logic to be really jarring and off-putting. Especially when the devs should be doing everything in their power to amp up player retention before PVE launches.

:scissors: KarQ, Play it for the job

This clip stood out to me, in that it’s really easy to see that a lot of streamers are besides themselves with how much Fun is sucked out the game because of things like unenjoyable sniper design issues. Streamer’s are effectively “Third Party Marketing Talent” for Blizzard, and yet you got them playing barely enough to put out content. This sort of sentiment should be sending off massive red flashing alarm bells for the devs, as this is not the message you want broadcasted to new recruit and returning players, that your game is merely tolerable levels of fun.

:scissors: KarQ, Snipers control the game

:scissors: GREED, Widowmaker is a dumb hero 7

:scissors: Samito, Is it really the “maps” that’s the issue?

:scissors: SVB, The “only” solution to Snipers?

:scissors: Freedo, Bad Matchups (Can’t Interact)

:scissors: Flat’s/Samito, Bad Matchups (Can’t Interact)

:scissors: GroupUp, Not as Fun in Season 3

:scissors: Flats, Good luck Shielding Widows

:scissors: SVB, My most hated hero is Hanzo

:scissors: Emongg, Of Course I Get the game with a Widow

:scissors: Emongg, Snipers are pretty frustrating

:scissors: Eskay, Widow and Mercy Ruin the Game

:scissors: Flats, Wonder why Overwatch is less Fun

:scissors: Seagull hopes the Overwatch 2 balance team knows this

24 Likes

SOLUTIONS

Here are the “Broad Categories” of ways to make the Sniper Counterplay more enjoyable.

  1. Counteract with the Sniper through them being easy to kill
  2. Counteract the Sniper through damage blocking their ability to Snipe
  3. Retroactively counteract the Sniper with Heals/Damage Mitigation
  4. Make the problematic counterplay exist a lot less, by making the hero exist a lot less

Or more simply:

  1. Kills/Fragility/DangerRisk
  2. Blocking the action of Sniping
  3. Blocking the kill with Heals/Peels
  4. Don’t fix it, just nerf the crap out of it

For example:

  1. Lower Health: -25hp on Widow/Hanzo, maybe with Grapple/Lunge buffs (i.e. The Team Fortress 2 method)
  2. Slower ScopeIn/ArrowCharge mechnics, where shooting them knocks them out of it. (i.e. The Halo Infinite Method)
  3. Convert Sniper shots either fully or partially into damage-over-time effects. (i.e. Poison, DragonFire, PlasmaFire etc)
  4. Nerf with more nerfs, until they are in the bottom third pickrate out of 17 DPS heroes. Basically how they “solved” OW1 Bastion or OW1 Sombra.
14 Likes

Give Widowmaker the whiplash she always needed and remove the rifle.
This is a solution + increasing community groth.

2 Likes

maybe if less of you clapped like seals when 5v5 was announced/2nd tank was removed/shields got nerfed etc etc

snipers (the only dps that can really cut through sustain) wouldn’t be so popular

this is our (the community’s) bed. now lie in it.

24 Likes

I see Sniper Hate, I Upvote.

63 Likes

My solution is to stop worrying about whatever streamers are crying about, because their job is to find things to cry about.

If you downloaded a shooter, and someone clicked on your head, you may unsurprisingly find yourself in a losing condition.

I would be surprised if the proportion of players who finds that upsetting isn’t small compared to the hordes of newer or lower skilled players that play in a more dunkey-style, and would be turned off to find snipers to be any weaker than they already are. Because most people coming to OW will be random shooter players wanting to play a game in which shooting matters.

7 Likes

I’m getting a lot of r34 vibes here😆

2 Likes

I want her fall off lowered so she has to play in the same ranges soldier and ashe play at. maybe a bit farther than that, but you shouldn’t have to take a 10 min walk across the map just to jump her as winston/dva/-insert flanker-

(Hanzo too, but he’s not as big a problem as Widow)

4 Likes

Just give widow a traceable laser dot like Sniper from TF2

Problem solved

14 Likes

First off, the main reason for Streamer clips is because this is mostly rough draft for posting it to r/CompetitiveOverwatch, and they do pay too much attention to Pros/Streamers.

That said, if Blizzard are basically treating streamers as “Third Party Marketing Talent”, and their reaction to the game is “I play just enough Overwatch to qualify for the job, but I find other games way more fun”, that’s pathetic:


That’s the thing, if this was exclusive to the top 1% of the playerbase I wouldn’t care that much in terms of overall playerbase retention.

But it’s a game-wide problem. And I’m very very much in the perspective that if they gotta sacrifice something like 0.5% of the players to gain 5-15% more players. Then that’s just a good thing for the community, and a few tens of millions of dollars extra for Blizzard.

There’s no Ethical of Financial reason not to take that kind of bargain.

5 Likes

You can’t deny that it would help the community grow :woozy_face:

3 Likes

just give away your position bro. it doesn’t matter that literally no other hero has to do the same, just give the enemy team free intel bro

2 Likes

Implying most of the roster can interact with her even if they know where she is. She’s so far away that it doesn’t matter if you know where she is. She’s standing at the back of the map taking free shots at your team.

Nah. I’m so beyond done with snipers and their players acting like widow/sig mirrors on Circuit, Havana etc are ok.

43 Likes

I think you’re seeing this backwards? Newer or lower experience players being able to enjoy shooting in this shooter is the ideal. That’s why they downloaded OW, they’re the dunkeys that care not for strategy or metas, they just want to shoot things and have fun.

The only risk Widowmaker poses is that she could overly dominate the top 1%, which was similarly the only problem with TF2’s sniper. But I don’t think she presently rewards skill more than she should even in the top 1%.

3 Likes

That’s kinda the point, lol

No other hero has a hitscan weapon that can one shot across the map

22 Likes

Because this is an Overall Playerbase Retention and Growth Problem, not a “Tournament Tier Pickrate” issue.

6 Likes

He is lying through his teeth widow has negligible pr in comp.

She has always been popular in qp.

Everyone like trying her.

What’s bad is he is doing a EGRYN WHILE BEING SMART

He is just a salty hog main who hasn’t touched the game since dec and has spent the last few months with this useless propaganda and sniper hate posts.

3 Likes

Ya know how you could end this sniper debate once and for all, I want someone to go through and dissect what this man said piece by piece, no insults none of this it’s not worth it, none of these blanket statements, if you can outright annhilate everything this man is laying down then this debate will be laid to rest.

5 Likes

You mean your db lie will be exposed

PATHETIC DUDE.

Why don’t you post the truth you will still be able to go after my main hanzo dude.