Can we fix tp please?

[Zephrin-11143]

Sym has a low effective range and low sustain, and whether she’s going to zone out enemy territory, flank for picks or give her team utility, tp is the main driving tool to do that.

Right now her infinite tp is simply on too high of a experienced down time consequently leading to a really high hero down time and being unreasonably team dependent.

Proof of Down Time Problem

The timelines below graphically provide the reasoning of why infinite tp cd mechanic results a huge spike in experienced down time compared to old 3.0 finite tp.

@Zephrin-11143

Most other abilities and sym’s old 3.0 finite tp:

timeline of cd:            |-------------------------------|
timeline of getting value: |+++++++++++| ability down time |

Sym’s current infinite tp:

timeline of cd:                        |-------------------------------|
timeline of getting value: |+++++++++++|       ability down time       |

This is obviously simplified because technically, sym nor her team is getting 100% utilitisation of tp in it’s uptime (which further adds onto the experienced down time.

If you want the technical math behind comparing the 2 tp, click to expand below drop down.

Mathematics on Old Finite 3.0 TP having less experienced down time

Old 3.0 tp:

• time to next cast = 12s from placement, fixed
• experienced down time = (10s - usage time) + 2s
  • where usage time is in [0s,10s] which represents time spent actually using it and the last 2s is the remaining cd when tp duration is spent.
  • 0 <= experienced down time <= 12s
  • average experienced downtime was about 6s (to fit in 2 engagements in 1 tp, i.e. 2 interacts to go in, 2 interacts to disengage —> 3s used simply in interaction delays, include time actually spent in engagements which aren’t simply going to be nicely 1s long within those interaction delays esp when sym isn’t necessarily always staying strictly 1.5m of tp entrance).

current infinite tp :

• time to next cast = uptime + 10s
• experienced down time = 10s + (uptime - usage time)
  • which is unbounded above
  • 10s <= experienced down time < infinite
  • minimum already much higher than old average.

Not to mention how we’ve recently received ANOTHER massive patch to make tanks, and consequently teams, play much less static and increasing the overall pace of the game, it makes less sense to make sym’s tp really static and inflexible to adapt to the team’s and/or the enemy’s situation via having a long down time on tp.

Solutions

Options:

1. Revert to old 3.0 finite tp or
2. implement Arcadium’s idea of “12s cd starts on placement, pauses when 6s is left until destruction” with maybe a compensation nerf of reduction to 25m in placement range

Addressing Pre-emptive Concerns

“But a more frequent TP will be OP” (it won’t).

@Zephrin-11143

we had old 3.0 finite tp, which objectively was far more frequent in casts and had much lower experienced down time and it was not abused, not oppressive nor OP. you can even look back at pro play with old finite 3.0 tp team tp uses and see how it’s used pretty much exactly like current and just as infrequently (tp at start ->swap off -like) in that hyper coordinated setting. using old 3.0 finite tp as a cast frequency and down time standard is objectively not OP. esp given how there’s been quite a lot of powercreep put in other heroes since then too.

“But tp is for the team only”

Please read this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/eiew66/a_sym_mains_explanation_as_to_why_tp_shouldnt_be/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Aside

And also fix this bug please:

TP selfdestruct glitch

[Reign-11778]

Fix where if you try to place your TP and “miss”, the animation will cancel and u have to start it again to place

Make Tp able to be placed in spawn

Fix Tp self destructing

Fix Tp dying to moving objects

Make Tps cast time 1 sec for Sym,
keep at 2 second cast for team and object

Maybe make its radius bigger for Sym only

[Mefionir-2989]

I’ve always given a lot of feedback on the TP (you can see one I recently said about its graphic effect). but what I think is absolutely necessary to solve is its fast use.

I find it disconcerting that I have never seen analyzes that prevent one from summoning the arriving TP at too ridiculous a distance (like 5m) if one summons it too quickly. It doesn’t have the same needs as the Mei wall, what good is a TP so close? to nothing.

Or why not continue to analyze the trade-offs between an infinite and a limited time tp? Currently there are many Lazy Sym that limit themselves to putting it only in the Respawn point of the game, as in the OWL she has become “Taximetra”, it is shameful. Want to make Symmetra a less supportive and more aggressive DPS? how would it work if only she can use the TP? Or what if there are only limited teleport charges? you need to experience a lot more on how it interacts on this dynamic game.

[Zephrin-11143]

@Mefionir-2989

find it disconcerting that I have never seen analyzes that prevent one from summoning the arriving TP at too ridiculous a distance (like 5m) if one summons it too quickly. It doesn’t have the same needs as the Mei wall, what good is a TP so close? to nothing

while in many horizontal cases that’s true, I’m not so sure for the vertical use cases. e.g. going 1 floor up directly might be 5m or so.

@Mefionir-2989

Or why not continue to analyze the trade-offs between an infinite and a limited time tp? Currently there are many Lazy Sym that limit themselves to putting it only in the Respawn point of the game, as in the OWL she has become “Taximetra”, it is shameful

tbh I didn’t want to make the post even more bloated. but TBH, what’s needed to be said I’ve said either here or in one of my past threads regarding how infinite tp is i.e.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/cgcjs8/a_sym_mains_explanation_of_how_ptr_sym_teleporter/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
and related links found in the post.

although the cd time there is different (because initial ptr was worse), a lot of the points are still relevant unfortunately.

@Mefionir-2989

Want to make Symmetra a less supportive and more aggressive DPS? how would it work if only she can use the TP?

the thing about disabling teammates going through tp is that once that feature is gone, there’s nothing design-wise about tp that justifies all the counterability and other drawbacks that it has as a mobility tool i.e. wind up, low interaction radius, destructibility, static in nature, long cd, counterability, etc.

@Mefionir-2989

Or what if there are only limited teleport charges?

that’d kill tp and consequently sym too.

[Reign-11778]

I feel like just straight up removing tps ability to work on teammates would make her so she’d get meaningful buffs

[Zephrin-11143]

they’d basically have to rework tp entirely at that point to be self mobility. there’s too many drawbacks if simply left as is for self mobility with team usage subtracted away.