we discuss 2cp all the time. it’s one of the top discussions we have in the design group. we’ve spent more time trying to address that gamemode and trying changes than any other mode. we’ve also reworked the maps the most.
the mode has some fundamental flaws, depending on the context you’re coming from (professional play vs. comp vs. quick play).
contrary to what some communities would have you believe, not everyone dislikes the modes or the maps.
we’ll continue to try solutions for both the mode and the maps. it’s definitely something that’s top of mind for us. there just aren’t easy silver bullet solutions.
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Again for the people in the back!
also, I know its not often that you respond to these but… will we have a way to play pre-rewokred paris and horizon after they’re changed? Specifically in custom games?
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2cp can be very frustrating especially if you dont cap point because they stalled really hard. Thats one of my biggest dislikes about the gamemode
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Maybe when Push comes out, would we necessarily need all of the map modes in the map pool rotation? It could be neat to try a season without 2CP and see how people really feel about it being gone entirely.
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Thank you for keeping this in mind. Many folks such as myself legitimately think 2CP is not just enjoyable, but arguably the best mode we have. I also rather like Paris, never understood why everyone hates it. Glad to see that the devs aren’t willing to give in to the pressure of “No one likes this, just do away with it” and are actually thinking of everyone when it comes to these types of decisions.
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Has the team ever considered splitting the maps into 3 capture points? I get the feeling that the frustration is from how quantized the capture progression is, making it very all or nothing compared to something more continuous like payload maps.
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I enjoy the mode, especially on Volskaya and usually Hanamura. The biggest problem with Hanamura though is that Mei and Symmetra trash any fun the first point has if they get used.
The game mode is enjoyable as long as everyone understands that you gotta move forward, but not just charge in on attack, while making sure to all stay together on defense and not send the entire team back to the point if a rogue person touches it.
Those are the most common ways I see teams fall apart on that mode.
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That would make games way too long honestly, or way to hard to win on attack if we lower the match time.
You can adjust the capture progress rate to compensate
2CP can easily become the most frustrating gamemode, as a personal anecdote I stalled a Point on Attack as Lucio for two whole minutes on Hanamura and tried as hard as I could to let my team cap it and was actively picking up kills and popped Sound Barrier twice during the entire engagement.
My team couldn’t cap though and as soon as I died, the round was over I facepalmed and immediately said over Text Chat, “How did we not cap that, I held that for so long.” to no response from the rest of team.
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This is true. I for one like most 2 cp maps. Also some heroes are just better suited for 2cp map specific strategies so removing them would also negatively affect their balance
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Would it though?
Things could be scaled to be similar to Payload maps, which rarely get complained about.
I’d say it’s worth at least a look.
Why can’t we just finally add a mode selection option? Why are the developers so against the idea?
Worst case scenario, a certain mode or map never gets played. But that makes it easy for you to guys to spot and fix what the community dislikes.
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Payload maps have much less time given between points and are easier to attack since the objective is always close.
For the assault maps, it’s complained about for some maps that it’s too hard to attack, other maps it’s too hard to defend. Speeding up capture hurts defense more than less time hurts the attack since all it takes is one good push.
It feels difficult to defend, if the enemy team sweeps the first team fight in the first minute of the game (which is pretty common), they usually have ults for second point, which makes defending the last one incredibly difficult for your team to defend. You end up getting snowballed so much, it’s not fun.
Even if you’re attacking and you snowball the enemy team it still doesn’t feel good, it feels dull, like yeah we won this round but it did not feel satisfying
Have you thought of Changing Paris at all? The first point choke point is very similar to Eichenwalde first point which was changed because it was too hard to cross. Are there any changes you’ve been thinking of perhaps adding in another doorway like you did for Eichenwalde or possibly a different design change?
yes. we have actually tried it. the scope of work to do it properly is the equivalent of rebuilding all of the maps. it’s not a “minor redo” or rework level of effort. it’s almost like building a new map from scratch.
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True. I love 2cp! It’s my favorite gamemode.
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I love 2cp personally…it’s just a different type of challenge relative to the other map types…
do defenses have an advantage at the end of those maps? Yes
Can it lead to stalling? Yes
but neither really bothers me…especially in comp since you have equal advantages once you switch over
i would personally change 2 things if possible (which i would say blizz has already at least tweaked in the past):
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remove draws…2 points…whoever takes it fastest period…if they both go overtime then its whoever was in OT the least amount of time…or just make the rounds even shorter…basically the less amount of times spent on the maps the better…no tiebreaker helps…but less time overall (which theyve done before) would help
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and reduce stall potential with respawn times (also which theyve done)…
the alternative for the latter would be redesign maps so the defense doesnt spawn right next to the final objective…OR consider shortening distance between points A and B - which i would say is a MUST in the case of paris (since i know theyre working on it specifically)
but i think 2cp is a good measure of a teams ability to work as one…which i believe to be the real issue here…its not so much that theyre badly designed…its that people dont really have a team mentality
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Have you ever considered having both points be active at once, and the two teams essentially be forced to defend their own point while attacking the enemy point? Obviously this would require that the attacking team be moved closer to their point (or that point moved closer to them), but I think it’d create an interesting dynamic
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