everyone has the right to complain.
i hate it when people try to change my mind like no way.
im fine with symmetra but i miss old symmetra so much, its just how it is.
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I have become so disenchanted with overwatch over the pathetic, rushed, half arsed rework for Sym.
I look at how Hanzo was reworked, and then I look at Sym…and it’s just so obvious they didn’t give a damn.
And the Sym rework is doubly sour for me because not only were these changes useless and for naught in regards to her popularity and toxicity towards her, but the rework eliminated one of the few accessible heroes (and the only accessible hero not relegated to nurse maid or meat shield) for physically disabled people like me. Before, I could go all day playing Overwatch, and now I need to stop playing because my hand locks up and hurts.
I think the people who praise the rework and mock Symmetra players in the same breath are actually just cowards who didn’t “learn to aim” at a hero who needed to be <10 m and take 3 seconds to kill or they just couldn’t stand being outplayed by a condemned pick like Symmetra 2.0.
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Your right… forgot she was also compared to Mei.
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Yes, still doesn’t change the fact that it was their fault that she got that Powerful in the first place. If they just didn’t start with the rework in the first place she would not have been an issue
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Mercy is the best off-healer now and she have oustanding mobility with guardian angel. The character is perfectly balanced
Sym is the best character to “DEFEND”. Sadly she is weak for attacks. Sym kit for defense points is very very opressive
That shouldn’t really be a factor. I’d rather the health of the game at large be considered.
Why isn’t Brig on your list?
Thank
Goodness
This is exactly why we don’t listen to the playerbase when we rework a character. They are the most biased of the player base involving that character.
Still quick and fluid and is even quicker now that her ultimate allows her to fly.
Resurrecting is not a stun. You are not able to move while stunned.
This is the issue. Myself and many others do think this was a proper rework. You’re ignoring the part of the community that doesn’t complain and moan constantly and is actually satisfied.
I don’t care how much Symmetra mains want her auto-lock back, it was bad for the game.
I don’t care how much Mercy mains want the mass resurrection back either. I prefer this current Mercy.
Source?
Everyone has the right. No one reasonable is arguing this point.
You have yet to show that they only listened to one side.
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complain away just don’t expect devs to do exactly what you want because pretty much everyone wants something different, understand that devs will change what seems reasonable in the general context of the game and not based on what you like
stop. calling. valkyrie. a. spectator. ult.
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It’s interesting, because a lot of Mercy players nowadays say “why didn’t they just change X for Mass Res and call it a day?” when in reality, whenever the idea was brought up in the past, it was shot down by the very same Mercy mains who now claim it was the best thing to do.
So, honestly, they could have very well been listening to Mercy players when they did the rework, and it was the Mercy players that just shot themselves in the foot.
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It’s more interesting, that PTR feedback had many posts about how broken rework would be, yet it still was released. Knew that this is going to end really bad, as it’s just how support nerf cycle goes.
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Well… my aim Is nonexistent and I am in bronze, so Yeah…
But they also Cut her ability to Spread her damage across the map by half, Her turrets get shot out of the air more often than they actually land, Her Teleport only works when your team is coordinated (Which down here in bronze it NEVER is) and without her lockon primary to make her scary to get close to she has no survivability.
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To be fair, for every post on how broken OP it’d be, there was 2 for how horribly bad it’d be.
That probably had something to do with it getting released, the devs weren’t sure which side to go with because we can’t agree on anything.
Her damage being spread across the map is pointless, I can assure you it is almost always better for it to be localized.
Her turrets (turrets especially) and orbs are still very scary reasons to not get close to Sym. And her orbs don’t require fine aim, so getting better with them isn’t as difficult as learning to track with her beam. Just practice your right clicks and rightclick->melee at close range.
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After trying to balance them but accidentally making them the strongest hero in the entire history of Overwatch.
I don’t think there’s an inherent problem with raising a hero’s skill ceiling, but they went about it by completely changing her play style.
Who is ‘they’.
If Mercy players: I don’t think mercy players want easy heavy impact, but rather just heavy impact even if it means raising her skill ceiling.
I don’t understand how one can have the right to act some way, but also say it is unjustified, do those comments not contradict each other?
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Tbh though sym is a better hero overall
Mercy is a failure and is now unfun
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Both heroes were reworked because their core designs didn’t fit the game. Just, in general.
Mercy’s ultimate was flat out bad for the game. One ult could up and delete the efforts of 6 others, and was either impossible to stop or utterly useless with very, very little middle ground die to a combination of Mercy’s squishiness and her mobility.
Pre-invulnerability frames, it was useless.
Post-invulnerability frames, it was unstoppable.
It was more powerful than any enemy ultimate combo provided the combo didn’t kill the Mercy.
Grav-dragon < Mass Rez
Nano-blade < Mass Rez
Blizzard-Noon < Mass Rez
Shatter-Blossom < Mass Rez
[insert ult here] x 6 < Mass Rez
Without an effective Mass Rez, mercy was worthless. With one, she was a must pick. There was no in-between.
Sym was the exact opposite. Because of how her kit was designed she was utterly, utterly worthless on attack and only marginally useful on defense. Her auto-lock beam was either oppressive or worthless depending on enemy skill, though unlike Mass Rez it did have middle ground.
Symmetra 1.0 and 2.0 have the distinctions of being the only heroes with an effective 0% pick rate in pro-play, and not just S1 OWL. OWL, Contenders, and the 2016 & 2017 world cups saw zero symmetra play. Additionally, her pick rate above silver was nearly zero for two full years.
She needed her reworks very, very badly.
Do their original fans have a right to complain?
You obviously have every right to complain as long as you don’t violate the forum TOS. However, I don’t think your complaints have much value.
The states of these heroes were just bad. In Mercy’s case, while mass rez might have been more “fun” than Valk, it was absolutely toxic to general gameplay. From hide & seek to tempo rezzing, it completely shaped the ult game by itself. It was too powerful to be left alone.
Sym, may have been more fun before for some people, but if a hero sees zero usage it means it is a waste of the manpower used to build it. I’m sorry that you “lost your hero” but the rest of us deserve to have a hero that we can enjoy, and there just wasn’t enough of you to outweigh the rest of us.
If you want a simile example, we could equate the availability of old Symmetra to the availability of a bucket that only 0.2% of the population could use to drink water, or something. To which the old-sym fans would respond, “but this is just a game!”, and to which I would respond, “that we all help support.”
Symmetra wasn’t just “a little weak”. She was a terrible hero whose design was never going to work. She was designed along principals that the devs thought were going to drive the game, but ended up being based on completely incorrect assumptions.
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Don’t shoot your turrets at the enemy. TP bomb them if you want to get your turrets there.
Otherwise, only shoot your turrets close to you after you have engaged the enemy in close range.
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That’s nice, still doesn’t make you right about the rework or direction they took it. But you can complain all you want.
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It gets worse when you remember the context we had at the time of the rework.
The first time the devs ever addressed Symmetra after her first rework was more than a year after it, on this dev update. I took the liberty to place the video directly on the part that matters:
Which is “We don’t believe she need major buffs”.
We as a community were all over talking about minor buffs and improvements for her. We already had a massive megathread running, and there is a lot of good suggestions there. But the fact that we had reassurance from a dev video saying she don’t need major buffs, hit us with relief that any change to her would not be too extreme.
Then, a few months later, we got Patch 1.22, which gave us two minor buffs to both Mei and Reaper that focused on their already existent playstyle, and really improved the viability of those heroes.
Then we got hit by this post, heavily implying that her TP would take the Rez treatment and become a standard ability. It’s ok, the changes would still be minor, it would be a new ability, maybe lose the barrier for that, but it had potential. Most of the community was fine with that, and we waited for new stuff on the rework.
The gut punch was given at this thread, where Geoff started spilling the beans about her new turrets. It was good, and while there were some doubts about the reduction in stash size, the overall response was either positive or a “let’s wait for the PTR” reaction, both by Sym and non-Sym players.
Then he talked about the changes in her gun. And that’s where the doubts started. You see, for most Sym mains, her gun (beam and orb) was probably the most balanced part of her kit, and he basically trashed it down, and created two firing modes that behave in completely different manners from before. Then, a little later he told us about the reshaping of Photon Barrier and removal of Shield Generator. And that’s where hell broke loose.
The devs in the span of three months basically jumped from “she don’t need major buffs” to “we will change every single ability she have into something else”, and a lot of Symmetra players didn’t took that well.
Some never gave Sym3 a chance to prove her value, switching to other heroes.
Some quit as soon as the patch hit live.
Some adapted, but miss Sym2.
Some adapted and actually enjoy Sym3 more.
And a few started playing her more often, but have no previous experience to talk about the rework impacts.
And honestly, this rework divided the Symmetra community in half. And that has not been good for a niche community like ours. Mercy mains could survive having a split mains community because she was the most popular hero in the game, by a long margin. Communities like /r/SymmetraMains is a shadow from what it was six months ago (it was the most active “mains” community on reddit).
Myself, I stand that both versions are different heroes, and should be coexist in the game. I do not want a revert because I also enjoy playing Sym3 (just not enough to main her), and I don’t want the people who main her right now to feel the same way I did when Sym2 got deleted. Blizzard still have all of her old code, so they just need to make the art assets of the new hero (I know this isn’t easy or cheap or fast), and slap it on them.
Give Echo Sym2 kit. That’s my only fight on behalf of Symmetra players nowadays.
9 Likes
I really like your post, nice and well thought out. I agree with your comments about Mercy, and I also think Sym2 and Sym3 are so different – I could not adapt to Sym3 gameplay as easily as I picked up Sym1 and Sym2. It must’ve felt really bad for a Sym2 main to see her get deleted.
Thumbs up from me.
1 Like