Both symmtra and mercy mains have every right to complain TBH

After trying to balance them but accidentally making them the strongest hero in the entire history of Overwatch.

I don’t think there’s an inherent problem with raising a hero’s skill ceiling, but they went about it by completely changing her play style.

Who is ‘they’.
If Mercy players: I don’t think mercy players want easy heavy impact, but rather just heavy impact even if it means raising her skill ceiling.

I don’t understand how one can have the right to act some way, but also say it is unjustified, do those comments not contradict each other?

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Tbh though sym is a better hero overall

Mercy is a failure and is now unfun

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Both heroes were reworked because their core designs didn’t fit the game. Just, in general.

Mercy’s ultimate was flat out bad for the game. One ult could up and delete the efforts of 6 others, and was either impossible to stop or utterly useless with very, very little middle ground die to a combination of Mercy’s squishiness and her mobility.

Pre-invulnerability frames, it was useless.
Post-invulnerability frames, it was unstoppable.

It was more powerful than any enemy ultimate combo provided the combo didn’t kill the Mercy.

Grav-dragon < Mass Rez
Nano-blade < Mass Rez
Blizzard-Noon < Mass Rez
Shatter-Blossom < Mass Rez
[insert ult here] x 6 < Mass Rez

Without an effective Mass Rez, mercy was worthless. With one, she was a must pick. There was no in-between.

Sym was the exact opposite. Because of how her kit was designed she was utterly, utterly worthless on attack and only marginally useful on defense. Her auto-lock beam was either oppressive or worthless depending on enemy skill, though unlike Mass Rez it did have middle ground.

Symmetra 1.0 and 2.0 have the distinctions of being the only heroes with an effective 0% pick rate in pro-play, and not just S1 OWL. OWL, Contenders, and the 2016 & 2017 world cups saw zero symmetra play. Additionally, her pick rate above silver was nearly zero for two full years.

She needed her reworks very, very badly.

Do their original fans have a right to complain?

You obviously have every right to complain as long as you don’t violate the forum TOS. However, I don’t think your complaints have much value.

The states of these heroes were just bad. In Mercy’s case, while mass rez might have been more “fun” than Valk, it was absolutely toxic to general gameplay. From hide & seek to tempo rezzing, it completely shaped the ult game by itself. It was too powerful to be left alone.

Sym, may have been more fun before for some people, but if a hero sees zero usage it means it is a waste of the manpower used to build it. I’m sorry that you “lost your hero” but the rest of us deserve to have a hero that we can enjoy, and there just wasn’t enough of you to outweigh the rest of us.

If you want a simile example, we could equate the availability of old Symmetra to the availability of a bucket that only 0.2% of the population could use to drink water, or something. To which the old-sym fans would respond, “but this is just a game!”, and to which I would respond, “that we all help support.”

Symmetra wasn’t just “a little weak”. She was a terrible hero whose design was never going to work. She was designed along principals that the devs thought were going to drive the game, but ended up being based on completely incorrect assumptions.

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Don’t shoot your turrets at the enemy. TP bomb them if you want to get your turrets there.

Otherwise, only shoot your turrets close to you after you have engaged the enemy in close range.

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That’s nice, still doesn’t make you right about the rework or direction they took it. But you can complain all you want.

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It gets worse when you remember the context we had at the time of the rework.

The first time the devs ever addressed Symmetra after her first rework was more than a year after it, on this dev update. I took the liberty to place the video directly on the part that matters:

Which is “We don’t believe she need major buffs”.

We as a community were all over talking about minor buffs and improvements for her. We already had a massive megathread running, and there is a lot of good suggestions there. But the fact that we had reassurance from a dev video saying she don’t need major buffs, hit us with relief that any change to her would not be too extreme.

Then, a few months later, we got Patch 1.22, which gave us two minor buffs to both Mei and Reaper that focused on their already existent playstyle, and really improved the viability of those heroes.

Then we got hit by this post, heavily implying that her TP would take the Rez treatment and become a standard ability. It’s ok, the changes would still be minor, it would be a new ability, maybe lose the barrier for that, but it had potential. Most of the community was fine with that, and we waited for new stuff on the rework.

The gut punch was given at this thread, where Geoff started spilling the beans about her new turrets. It was good, and while there were some doubts about the reduction in stash size, the overall response was either positive or a “let’s wait for the PTR” reaction, both by Sym and non-Sym players.

Then he talked about the changes in her gun. And that’s where the doubts started. You see, for most Sym mains, her gun (beam and orb) was probably the most balanced part of her kit, and he basically trashed it down, and created two firing modes that behave in completely different manners from before. Then, a little later he told us about the reshaping of Photon Barrier and removal of Shield Generator. And that’s where hell broke loose.

The devs in the span of three months basically jumped from “she don’t need major buffs” to “we will change every single ability she have into something else”, and a lot of Symmetra players didn’t took that well.

Some never gave Sym3 a chance to prove her value, switching to other heroes.
Some quit as soon as the patch hit live.
Some adapted, but miss Sym2.
Some adapted and actually enjoy Sym3 more.
And a few started playing her more often, but have no previous experience to talk about the rework impacts.

And honestly, this rework divided the Symmetra community in half. And that has not been good for a niche community like ours. Mercy mains could survive having a split mains community because she was the most popular hero in the game, by a long margin. Communities like /r/SymmetraMains is a shadow from what it was six months ago (it was the most active “mains” community on reddit).

Myself, I stand that both versions are different heroes, and should be coexist in the game. I do not want a revert because I also enjoy playing Sym3 (just not enough to main her), and I don’t want the people who main her right now to feel the same way I did when Sym2 got deleted. Blizzard still have all of her old code, so they just need to make the art assets of the new hero (I know this isn’t easy or cheap or fast), and slap it on them.

Give Echo Sym2 kit. That’s my only fight on behalf of Symmetra players nowadays.

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I really like your post, nice and well thought out. I agree with your comments about Mercy, and I also think Sym2 and Sym3 are so different – I could not adapt to Sym3 gameplay as easily as I picked up Sym1 and Sym2. It must’ve felt really bad for a Sym2 main to see her get deleted.

Thumbs up from me.

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I would rather see Sym reverted to 2.0 (then buffed) and Echo get the 3.0 kit because 2.0 was here first and it was quintessential Symmetra; us original Sym mains shouldn’t have to move to a new hero, especially when we were already invested in the old one. :confused:

I would be satisfied with either path, actually. If I had the option to choose, I would revert Sym and give Echo Sym3 kit as well.

But the main point is that I want both kits in the game, at the same time.

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The part my friend with an autoimmune problem who would shake so bad on certain days liked because they had a choice in which hero to play and now they’re relegated to Mercy-who had a playstyle they disliked since she’s just an enabler and had now stopped playing because to them it felt like Blizzard didn’t care about people who had issues like that when reworking her?

Boi DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT SYMMETRA IS BROKEN SHE LEGIT GETS CHARGE BY LAZER BEAMING A SHIELD AND DESTROYS A TANK

Every main has a right to complain.
Everyone has problems, get off your high horse.

(to the like 3 soldier mains out there, feelsbad, one day widow and hanzo will get nerfed.)

It might sound rough but it just isn’t practical for Blizzard to factor in such a minority of people when considering a balance change that’s going to positively impact millions of players.

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they coulda increased sym’s skill cap without it being an insult to sym mains, imo. what alienated syms mains, what was an insult to the sym mains was the drastic change in her role, not the fact that sym not has a higher skill floor and ceiling. prior to 3.0 she was a support that helped the team with shields (both e ability and shield gen) and had area denying abilities. majority of the sym mains suggestions was to give her more mid-fight utility to help her teammates (turrets were useless during a teamfight once they were destroyed, and photon barrier was mostly used to help herself and only sometimes to help teammates. but rather than rework her to be the non-healing support her (afaik barrier queen) playerbase wants the devs turned her into a Shield Tank-Buster, not even a general tank buster but a shield tank buster specialist, which is an extremely far cry to what her players wanted. That’s not even touching the complete removal of the anti flanker m1 she had not saying this is a good or bad thing but even her primary which was anti flanker was changed to her current role of shield tank buster

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Actually the rework made her more fluid (super jump etc)

What? You should clutch battle mercy more with your ult.

Sym deserves a beam range identical to Zarya’s IMO; Transitioning from one to the other feels so odd because it feel like your beam should be hitting sometimes.

Lucio: Speed boost
Zen: Discord

Mercy is not the best lmao

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I like the fact that you have taken entitlement to the next level. Like you are not even implying you know more than the Devs, you literally said it :
“Both hero’s were reworked without the core playbase of both hero’s in mind”

So the guys who DESIGNED the game, and know EXACTLY why, where and who created the hero with the lore and intention in mind … did ignore all that, and apparently the desires of the whole community (false) to rework a hero for apparently … no reason?

“they only listened to one side”
Sure mate, because whoever disagrees with you is wrong and its biased “because people disliked playing against them”

I mean damn dude, l would like to say you went from 0 to 100 but you started literally on 95 and went full ballistic to 150.

Let me spell it out for you : All the reworks are justified by facts, stats and info that you dont have access to and a HUGE part of this community fully agrees with them.

Like somebody already stated :

Quoted for truth.

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So what if we don’t have access to facts, stats and info that Blizzard has? That’s the nature of dissent – and the dissent among those who loves Mercy and Symmetra has been huge. Or are you of the opinion that only the “official word” from Blizzard should exist?

Since when companies ask players’ ‘permission’ and feedback when it comes to shape their game the way they want ?

They listen to no sides, they just do what they think it is right, whether that is or not.

The fact that we suffer half year of tank meta is because they don’t listen even to pro players, let alone the horrible Mercy meta we also suffered.