Thank you for the comments, Jeff.
I hope you guys will seriously consider implementing a guild system that has no role lock.
I donât like the idea of 1-2-3. The reason I wanted 2-2-2 in the first place was so that I didnât need to solo tank every damn game. Itâs so much pressure, and it would make playing tank even more difficult than it already is.
3 Likes
I think splitting main tank and off tank into separate roles would fix a lot. If zarya and hog and dva get put in âdpsâ role and then there are 3 dps slots, itâll just make it even more painful to play main tank because youâll only have an off tank in one out of ten games. And guess what? That will make the queue time problem worse not better.
Hi Papa Jeff! I really hope you read this one message! 1st sorry for very bad english but im try my best cuz i love this game e realy want to see this game on topâŚso i begin. 1/3/2 is a good idea but required so many drastic changes in tank category, hero bann was not bad idea to but for now we have SO little hero pool to do that. So i start to think,why not to do a 2/2/2 but with even more category!! Tanks split in Main:Winston,Rein,Orisa,Sigma(give them their old shields!) Offtank:Hog,DVA,Zarya
DPS: Damage:Soldier,Widow,Hanzo,Mcree,Juncrat,Bastion,Phara,Ashe
Flankers:Genji,Tracer,Doom,Reaper,Sombra
Tactitcs:Torb,Mei,Symm
Healers: Main:Mercy,Moira,Baptist
Support:Zen,Lucio,Ana
And make people choose not only a Roll they play but even subcategory of that Roll! This way u half queue issue with dps,and make game without boring combo meta like double shield or double snipers(because in game u can have only one hero for subcategory) so this way u always have a perfect comp with 1MainTank1Offtank2 different type of dps and 1main1support healers!!! Ofcourse in all subcategory people can switch a category! If im damage dps i can do request to a Flank dps to switch category and he can accept it,refuise it or refuise the way u cant do more request(this for spamm issue). If u see in the list of hero i didnt mention Brigitte ane Hammond that because u can move brigitte in Tactics dps spot by reworked her. When she in fight she now dont heal teammate or herself but charge her ArmoryPack and this one dont heals now but give to ur teammate only Armor, bring her more Shield hp to make her more dps and please god made her knoked abilityto knock her back like ash Gun when u hit walls or ground!!! So she can escape from bad situation or reach highround position to push some dps/healers. Second was hammond,reduce his life and move he in the Flank dps spot!
P.S. last 2 things for little rework to make some hero more playble! Like Torb,Make when he hit 2/3 times his turret(turre must be full hp)he actually overload the turret and bring the turret in old style lv3 mod for some seconds(8sec mabe?) And after timeout turrets explode doing little aoe damage(like tracer pulso bomb maybe) and leave little lava on the grount WaS PERFECR to protect payloads or points from big push and make torb hammer not so useless!! second rework for Soldier! Make him recharge when he run, and make his healing pack with hp(100/150?) For 15/20 seconds heal ability so people must destroy the pack to deal with soldier.And last things, make baptiste damage less then a dps!!! Thank u devs and papa jeff if u read and understand wat i writte,sorry again for bad english! Love u and ur game!!!
And worse, the GOATS will be backâŚ
The problem for DPS (if thereâs specific roles like flankers tactics and DPS), is looks like a Role ban. If (for flankers), thereâs McCree or Brigitte or Pharah, and the other guy is a flanker (or tactics), itâs impossible to win, and itâs not a healer or tank to deal with them.
Ok we resolve some problem but we are more than you think.
Same thing for tanks : lots of players play offtank just to kill and more offensive than tank (because youâre passive). If everybody plays offtank, you have a same queue time than DPSâŚ
My thoughts to resolve this :
-Stay like it is. just take a time to do another thing like Youtube or read etc⌠And you have squirmish. So donât cry for long time queue. You want to play DPS, accept it
-More tank and more heal (AND NOT SWITCHING ROLE like Brigitte or Mei to tank)
-a 1-3-2 doesnât resolve problem because you have to rework all heroes to do that (and that take 2 or 3 years I guess). It can be a GOATS Comeback and I donât want to see this (even DPS Proplayer doesnât want this)
Thatâs resolve a lots of problem
Thanks Jeff for your answer (and thanks to answer to us for your first post in there)
But remember u can Switch role in same category! If they have a good poket Phara and u and ur teammate playing 1Flanker and 1 Tactics u are free to switch on Damage and take Widow OR if ur partner plays Damage but cant deal with Phara u can make request (when u both in spawn) to switch the Subcategory with ur teammate! And about tank issue, i remember u all people search not only for roles but specific subcategory roles and in game cant be 2 people playing same subcategory
in that case, itâs useless to make subcategory. Besides, if you use a tactics and you have a KOTH, itâs useless to use this role.
I think new dps Roadhog with low health is fine if there is some buff for his shotgun damage to kill Reaper or Mei or Doomfist in one shot easier.
Original fun of playing Roadhog was to grab target and then kill in one shot.
I would honestly love too see OW go to what I assume was the original intent of the game. Competitive play in this game should only be accessible via a 6v6 environment, meaning that you should only be able to que competitive if in a 6 stack. Then I would unlock the roster lineup into letting the teams play whatever characters they want, so if GOATS is your thing go ahead, if multiple DPS is your thing go ahead. Then your job is to attempt to balance the game in such a way that any reasonable combination of characters can lead to victory.
In the tournament scene this would be amazing to watch if balanced properly as think about any pro sports league (NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB ect); majority of these teams have unique strategies and identities that lead to different play styles that maximize the skills of their players. So if you are a team with unique talent in the Tanks and Supports section and prefer this GOATS style of play you run that, then you have different teams run different line ups and if the game is well balanced you can have an amazing experience playing it in a competitive environment like this.
Not to mention that doing something like this would take out 99.9% of the negativity currently associated with OW competitive as far as players working together, one tricks, throwers, leavers ect.
Every one of those leagues you just listed at the bottom has a 2-2-2 role lock, so no it does not exist. It only does so in scrims and since scrims are what people use to practice for the various tournaments you listed which are 2-2-2 lock no one is going to actively seek to play in a competitive 6v6 environment under different rules than the tourneys they wish to get into on a consistent basis.
To your other point I would agree you get your occasional âhuman error or faultâ that you point out, (someone has a bad day, or feels insecure wants to prove online how great they are ect) however I would argue that it not actually the majority of the issue. In most cases the issue is peoples difference of opinion on how to win the game (most times someone or multiple people are lacking understanding, or there is indeed more than one victory condition but not often). Having it set up that you can only que comp with 6 this would completely eliminate that component as you would more than likely que with people of similar mind and similar strategy therefor not having issues in working together.
Old school yes, but also very crappy, with only one tank and 3 trigger happy dps there was 0 peel, jesus why not make tanks more fun to play instead just adding dps tanks like hog and hammond. It feels so bad to play healer that I play tank 90% of the time now, so I at least can be the shield tank and make the game more fun over all for my m8âŚ
If one good hero fps game shows up, then Iâm done with OW
2 Likes
No. It doesnât save the game for tank and support players. It saves it for DPS players. Yaâll canât deal with a bit of wait so you wanna ruin the game. Btw, support sometimes has a long q but donât see them whining. Go read a book or smth. Or you know, make tanks actually enjoyable to play and not just get melted as soon as they step on the objective. Instead of, you know, forcing something to fix a problem (just like brig with dive and 2-2-2 for goats).
For it to ever work, all tanks would have to be reworked and made almost unkillable because they will be the first target of every fight - ALWAYS. Honestly, if you want 1-3-2 then you shouldnât of asked for role q. Jeff said a lot of games were played with only 1 tanks.
I can put up with a lot in this game, the bad and good decisions, the slow updates. I get annoyed but I can put up with it because I enjoy this game but I believe 1-3-2 will actually make me finally quit. Itâs so clearly focused on the comfort of DPS players and making it difficult for mostly tank players and it would restrict metas so heavily. It wonât be enjoyable to play against with 3 DPS players just swarming all over the place. Despite the tests, despite everything I actually believe it wonât make DPS qâs better cause I think a lot of people would be unhappy and either leave the game or refuse to play tank. It would also make DPS a more popular role, pushing up the q times.
Please just never do this. 2-2-2 was enough, we donât need more restrictions. Just deal with the damn wait time.
1 Like
if blizzard ever goes 1/3/2 i think all the tank players should organize a strike in protest!
and even if they tried to bribe the tank players by making them psudo-raid bosses it still wouldnât be worth it as it would undermine any kind of skill credibility and probably get nerfed into oblivion later on!
the greedy DPS mains can take that slot out of our cold dead hands!
Single tank would make game too dependent on that solo tank, team with the better tank will always win.
1 Like
Itâs better, than making game too dependent on DPS.
OK, a couple of things here that need to be pointed out. Buckle up, this is gonna be a long one.
The real world has no obligation to work as your models predict. Any flaw in your models means your output has flaws as well. âExpected behaviorsâ are what you think will happen. And the real world is under no obligation to work as your expectations go.
As far as your in house testing, you are testing ideas using designers who understand how the game was designed to be played and play it that way. Unfortunately, that gets thrown right out the window when it goes live on the main servers. Gamers are going to play the game as THEY WANT TO PLAY IT, not as you want. So thatâs why we were seeing 5 and 6 player DPS comps in play. Thatâs why you have teams scatter all over the map, making it very hard to play Tank and Support because they are built around the team working WITH them, not scattered to the four corners of the map running around like a litter of Golden Retriever puppies chasing after a box of thrown tennis balls.
And letâs not forget what the newer Tank and Support characters are blanced around. They have very strong DPS tendencies. Look at Baptiste for crying out loud. Heâs a âhealerâ and what is his M1 action? Attack. Same for Zenyatta.
For Brigitte to heal she has to deal constant damage. To recharge her healing, Moira has to do damage. Ana shoots the players with M1 that does damage to the opposing team, encouraging DPS play style. Mercy is the only support that is built around healing over attack, and she keeps getting her healing capacity nerfed.
And Tanks have it just as hard, with shields and armor nerfed under the theory that that will make them âmove upâ and not be stationary shields. But that is exactly what the description of a Tank is. What is being done makes them no longer Tanks and just big, easily targetable DPS characters. Poor Orisa has it the hardest, with her shield being as strong as wet Kleenex but she still moves at nearly the speed of a glacier.
You have to play the game in testing just like itâs being played by your players. And not the Grand Master and Professional tiers. The vast majority of your players are Gold or lower. That means you need to start reviewing the play styles of the majority of your playerers games and use those for your expectations. And PTR isnât cutting it. The player base is way too small for valid comparison to the main serverâs results. So either balance the game totally for DPS and eliminate the Tank and Support roles, or realize that the balance is totally fubar and needs serious rethinking.
And Overwatch 2 WONâT fix these problems. As long as you keep the ability for OW1 and OW2 players to play in the same games, they MUST have the same abilities and limitations. Any good computer programmer worth their paycheck will tell you that in order to fix bugs, you have to freeze the program development where it is until you have it fixed. Adding to the character roster only adds new variables to the gameplay and makes it EVEN HARDER to fix. Stop adding maps and characters until you get things balanced, then you can add new things to it slowly in order to make sure you donât mess it up. And unfortunately, and I know you arenât going to want to hear it, HALT all development on OW2 until you do, unless you decide it to be totally stand alone.
tl;dr - The game is in one heck of a mess balance wise and your choices on what and how to fix it isnât working. The whole process needs to pay attention to how it IS played, not how you play it in internal testing. Fix what is wrong first before adding anything new to the mix. Stick with the current path and youâre only going to make things worse and harder to fix rather than better and easier.
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This would be a nerf to supports with less hp on their team to heal for ultimate charge and also 3 dps and 1 tank with current damage values would just mean⌠the tank gets instantly melted.
Iâm all in with this idea of 1-3-2. The tanks especially the off tanks would need a rework
Good explanation. But why not 2-3-2, so a 7vs7?
One day I imagine Overwatch will be played (15v15) on Arathi Basin and Warsong Gultch.
Can you imagine a Widow headshot from Stables to Farm? 
2 Likes