Oh yea, thatāll take somebody who isnāt me a long long time to explain.
what would you say if they let Bastion move really really slowly in Sentry mode?
like one fifth of normal speed
almost everyone can see where bastion is looking by the hail of bullets heading in that direction, as the American military says āIf you can see it you can kill it.ā
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The moment Bastion moves in Sentry mode, Bastion stops being Bastion.
And again, mobility doesnāt do anything for Bastion, if he still canāt defend himself well.
Itās sadā¦ Heās supposed to be DANGEROUS in Sentry Mode.
Now he canāt even defend himself in that mode.
ok, tell me your ideas and Iāll tell you whatās wrong with them
Standoffish much?
Bastion needs to hit HARD when heās allowed to enter Sentry Mode, around enemies.
He needs tighter spread, headshots, no ironclad, less ammoā¦ yes, i said less ammoā¦ and in all honesty probably a slightly smaller hitbox.
On top of that iād be really nice if things like Sleep Dart and Hack would leave him hacked and slept in Sentry, without causing him to transform back for no reason.
And on the topic of HOOK Why not make it so Roadyās hook pulls Sentry Bastion without making him transform?
preach!
yes!
gatling guns have lots of ammo
bastion is a big machine
you can have your headshots imho
I like what they did on the decreasing spread, donāt think it needs changed imho
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Lots, yes. but he doesnāt need to spam 300 shots that are hitting nothing at all, in the hopes of having some of them sometimes hit.
Mainly i mean in Recon.
But yes.
The hitbox is a bit different from the character model.
The original spread was near perfect, they turned it into a dinner plate.
Now itās a little tiny bit better, but what most people forget isā¦
If you stop firing for even a second, itās a dinner plate again.
When a Sentry Bastion hits a Tracer at five meters away for two seconds, that needs to be a dead Tracer who got caught out.
No ifs ands or buts about it.
Right now youād have to track that Tracer for a few more seconds in hopes of dealing enough damage to her tiny frame.
Otherwise, no one fears Bastion, especially up close, because Bastion doesnāt HIT hard.
When you know thereās a Sentry Bastion around the corner, your first thought shouldnāt be āI need to run towards itā
@Tactician
Ironclad is damage reduction (DR) itās easier to explain the power of damage reduction with bigger DR values with a hero that doesnāt have armour. Lets consider 50% DR, which is āhalf damageā. What does that mean? Well in a way you essentially have double the HP, as if you have 200HP, with 50%DR 200 damage wonāt frag you, itāll deal only 100 damage. They need to deal 400 damage to kill you, right?
Sounds pretty good huh? Wouldnāt it be in every way just as good as simply having 400HP? No, itās better.
Say a hero with 400HP (and no damage reduction) is taking damage at 100DPS, and Mercy is trying to save them from dying by healing them with her beam that heals at 50HPS. Every second the 400HP hero loses 100HP from the damage but gains 50HP from the mercyās healing, so loses a net of 50HP every second.
Mercy would need to be healing at 100HPS for them to keep their health stable.
But a 200HP hero with 50%DR, heās just the same as having 400HP, right?
Look at whatās actually happening as the damage and healing is coming in.
Every second:
100DPS hits them
100DPS reduced to 50DPS because of damage reduction
50HPS healing isnāt reduced at all
50 HP lost, 50HP gained, health remains stable.
Net result: itās as if she was healing a 400HP target with a 100HPS healing beam.
Keeping health stable is vital as it means at low health damage that would kill them instead wonāt ever kill them, itās a road to nowhere.
Now Bastion does not have 50% DR, but the same effect is happening, itās actually a 25% boost to ALL sources of healing. This is easy to calculate, take what percentage damage they do take (so 20% damage reduction means they only take 80% damage, 80% = 0.8 multiplier) 1 divided by 0.8 is the āhealing boostā that damage reduction gives.
So you see the problem with changing damage reduction by just a small amount from 20% DR to 25% DR, thatās changing the healing boost from 1.25x to 1.33x multiplier.
Armour is a damage reduction that happens on top of this but itās complicated by how different sources of damage are affected in radically different ways like Anaās primary fire isnāt affected by armour at all but even DVA dealing headshots has 50% damage reduction vs armour.
Though raises the reasonable question: āBut bastion has self-repair to heal himself, so be can help himselfā
Except how do you use self-repair? By STOPPING your attack, that is so fundamentally different. While mercy or moira or whoever is healing sentry bastion, Bastion is still shooting. So bastion is reducing the HP of his enemies and they arenāt able to reduce Bastionās HP.
But Bastion is giving up his attack to heal at only 75HPS, even with damage reduction at best he can only keep his HP stable so he doesnāt lose HP but also his opponents donāt lose HP. Itās not helping bastion win a fight, itās just stalling out the fight to last longer.
Bastion canāt viably use self repair IN a fight.
Self-repair is only viable BETWEEN fights.
Self-repair is just the substitute for Bastionās low mobility so that he doesnāt have to make so many long detours to get healthpacks and slowly trundle back again. Stops bastion just setting up on top of a healthpack and staying there as he would if he had no means of self-healing combined with such low mobility.
It has potential but canāt help how bastion is screwed in the fights themselves.
I donāt know man.
Iām just thinking about how easy it is to hit Rein or DVA in the head hitbox and the devs respond to that with something dumb like āweāll just nerf bastionās base damageā.
Butā¦ headshots are insignificant against small hitbox squishy opponents, and now Iāve taken a DPS hit on the few bullets that do hit NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
And āOh well weāve broken that, letās āfixā it again with tighter spreadā and weāve reduced Bastionās minigun to being nothing more than Soldier 76ās primary fire with a damage boost, especially when factored against armour.
No HS = high BASE dps
High BASE dps = high barrier break
This is a terrible tradeoff for way way worse damage on things that you canāt headshot (like barriers, rolling hammond, mei walls, turrets, etc) for circumstantial overkill on tanks you can headshot.
If the concern is āwell Iāve GOTTA frag rein that quick with headshots because earthshatterā well thatās not just going to only stop Rein from executing an earthshatter, itās going to also stop him even performing a firestrike without being annihilated. A mere firestrike!
Compare and contrast with how a personal barrier would protect bastion from earthshatter. Yet that would be quite vulnerable to a firestrike. So a normalisation of the threats Rein poses, his ult is blunted but his standard cooldown gives him huge influence at getting Bastion to reposition.
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Honestly Bastion still needs headshots as long as he gets a properly thought over ammo reduction.
Either back to 200 or iād take even down to 150.
As long as his ammo hits HARD when it does hit, he doesnāt need to be spamming in hopes of hitting something.
You may not always catch out the Rein trying to fire strike, if youāre reloading a larger amount of time.
And aside from that, if Rein is close enough to take that many bullets to the head hitbox, he doesnāt need to be using his fire strike.
He needs to be charging.
And if heās that close, itād be a close match up.
Either he pulls it off before he getās shredded into oblivion, or he does it from too far away and getās shredded to oblivion.
Note: This ALL depends on what and or who the Bastion is prioritizing.
Any good Rein would wait until the Bastion seems caught off guard or distracted to actually make a move.
You may be āfineā with 150, I am NOT! I know it takes 80 shots to frag a squishy at 35m, even with perfect tracking and thatās bad enough, itās worse when you factor how it is so typical that adding headshots will just lead to a nerf elsewhere to prevent bastion dealing too much damage with headshots.
Chibi you need to go on the record and say absolutely explicitly with no equivocation you ONLY want headshots if bastion takes absolutely no other nerfs to his damage in sentry mode. so
- if getting headshots means a spread nerf, then I donāt want headshots
- if getting headshots means a bullet damage nerf, then I donāt want headshots
- if getting headshots means a damage falloff nerf, then I donāt want headshots
- if getting headshots means a fire rate nerf, then I donāt want headshots
ChibiFox! Do you agree to ALL of that or do you not!
But itās not hitting hard.
Consider everything you canāt headshot:
- Small squishy heroes
- tanks at longer range
- enemy bastions
- Barriers
- rolling hammond
- mei walls
- torb turrets
- Baptisteās lamp
In every case where Iām not dealing enough damage against squishy heroes who are āhead clippingā itās not because all my bullets are hitting them in the head and itās not doing enough damage itās because so many of my bullets are missing.
The problem is clearly the spread.
If the spread is too badā¦ fix the spread.
This is the problem with buffing an irrelevant aspect, because itās irrelevant it then makes Bastion too powerful. This is what people donāt get about balance, itās not like a linear scale where you just put weight on one side or the other, itās more like trying to balance a plate thatās spinning on a stick, you need to get not just the right weight but in the right place.
Oh MAY not, maybe.
Everyone hates āmaybeā it sucks for balance. The fact is Rein BARELY survives a firestrike on Bastion, and thatās a fair trade if Firestrike were to have more effect on Bastion.
No you have now made a close range charge absolutely suicidal. It will NEVER work for Rein in a pure Rein vs Bastion fight. There is no range where Rein can execute a charge in time.
This isnāt good balance.
Rein canāt do anything against Bastion! And why is Rein being nerfed? Bastionās already sable to break Reinās shield (at a distance) better than any other hero. Why are we making it impossible for him to charge bastion even from point blank range?!?
DVA already struggles head to head with bastion, why are we giving bastion a āwin moreā option?
Rein is amongst the heroes LEAST able to do that.
I think something has been grossly misunderstoodā¦
Iāll be back later.
(Iām also not simply suggesting Bastion rely entirely on headshots as you make it out like i am. neither am i suggesting some strange compensation nerfs, as Bastion ONLY needs an increase in power. iāve said that from the start.)
He needs at least 200 so he can still kill people after taking down a Rein barrier.
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I think that I understand you, itās just youāve left a lot open to interpretation.
Iām saying you need to be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR about your priorities otherwise thisāll be used against us with the āwell the bastion mains seem to want HS so much, even preferring headshots to certain other thingsā.
And it can takes so many shots just to duel with a sniper. In my testing at only 35m even shooting until spread shrunk to 2 degrees before lining up crosshairs on a stationary ana, it took 57 shots, basically the equivalent of breaking an Orisa shield.
Also itās no damn good to say āwell maybe 150 shots is barely enough for one fightā yeah, but bastion doesnāt spend his downtime between single fights reloading, he spends his downtime self-repairing.
Two actions that are mutually exclusive.
So using your downtime between fights trying to juggle both self-repair and a long reload animation way more frequently and it wonāt just be twice as frequently.
300 rounds capacity isnāt just for firing 300 rounds all at once.
300 rounds is for firing a merely 100 round string then not having to reload because 50 rounds would never be enough for anything that might come around the corner.
Youāve got to be really careful about proposing 150 round capacity, thereās a huge difference between āI rarely pin the trigger to fire 150 rounds all at onceā and āItās so rare I have to reload because I lack enough ammo for upcoming fights.ā
If you think youāll need at least 100 rounds for anything that comes around the corner then just 50 round burst mean youāll have to reload. Right now you can make FOUR burst of 50 rounds before youāll have to reload, so thatās how halving clip size can lead to way way more frequent than 2x more reloading.
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Iām really upset your response was that long, but Iām going to read it anyway, maybe! 
DR is the exact same as HP. You never pointed out that DR helps a target without healers. If your point is that too much damage reduction is only feasible if healer didnāt exist, lest the DR become to powerful. Fine. So donāt increase damage reduction
However we must look at Bastion inside the game. Keep increasing his DR by 1% until he obtains an overall 50% win rate. Whether heās winning by healing or not.
With all that being said, yes, give Bastion back his head shots, that way he can fend for himself when he gets jumped.
Iāve been playing Bastion a lot more recently. I want to genuinely incorporate him into my competitive roster. Iāve realized the effective way to play him on attack is a bit more reserved and careful, with Sentry being more of an āabilityā than a āmodeā. Shifting my focus like this has increased his viability in my eyes a LOT.
Definitely not saying heās in a good spot right now, but Iām starting to think heās in no need of any even slightly major rework. Maybe mechanical adjustments, but no ability changes
- Iād like Self-repair to be infinite again. Never Understood the resource limit.
- Iād like the transformation sequence to Config:Tank to be waaaay faster. itās so easy to prepare against it when you hear a whole jingle.
- Iād like Sentry to have better falloff. instead of 15-7.5, it could be 15-10. I understand itās supposed to be a midrange ability, but often times it feels like itās doing almost nothing
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For the first time in a long LONG time, iām in complete agreement with a reply to this thread that hasnāt been made by a regular.
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I to donāt think a major rework is necessary. Things like you suggested would go a long way in making him better.
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Basically: DR reduces incoming damage but doesnāt reduce incoming healing.
Itās that simple.
The greater the DR, the greater the difference between damage-taken and healing taken.
Itās the difference between the rate you take damage and the rate youāre healed that determines how effective the healing is at keeping you alive.
Except he can be jumped from 20m away by a squishy where heās not going to be limited by lack of HS but by his spread. Heās limited by his spread.
If Bastionās spread let him land even close to 450DPS then HS would be overkill. Even on tanks.
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Bastion is still in a way better state than Junkrat ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ