If the team cannot kill all of the enemies at the same time, while keeping you alive to āHelpā Then yea, even if you win the engagement you and likely a healer or two will die in the process.
This may be true, but iād like not to really dwell on situations where even a Torbjorn would run the show.
Bastion is not viable in a competitive sense, where both teams want to win.
the thing that makes no sense is why you want bastion specifically to be buffed. or why anyone wants any 1 specific hero to be buffed, especially one whoās playstyle is niche by design. if you dont like the niche playstyle, why do you like him so much that you want him to be buffed at the detriment of the overall state of the game?
the game is strategic shooter. bastion has a narrow strategy. no one hero matters in the overall context of the gameās strategy, especially not a DPS hero, especially not bastion specifically.
if you want a more versatile machine gun character, why not play soldier?
Its like watching the hero with negative winrate getting nerfed for being unfun for 2 heroes. looking at Sombra
āNicheā Is no longer an argument.
Explain what a niche is please? Oh, is it the all powerful trump card that makes a hero not supposed to be playable outside of specific maps and very specific team comps?
No.
Soldier and Bastion are completely different.
Denying that Bastion has any strategy or strategic value is a fallacy and simply ill informed.
Why do i want Bastion buffed?
For the balance of the entire game.
Read some of my threads before making large assumptions about my intentions.
Get your popcorn ready people, here comes the repeated use of āNicheā with little to no context, and assumption that iām biased in all regards to game balance.
I want Bastion specifically to be buffed, to answer your original question, because the hero is performing worse than nearly any other, and is a detriment to whatever team he is on. Is that not wanting for the health of the game to be improved as a whole?
bastion is niche because he cant move. if he cant move that means people can surround him or avoid his sight lines. which means that his niche is a situation where you cant avoid his sight line.
soldier is just a more versatile form of bastion, because he can reposition and change his sight line. bastion is a niche form of soldier, because he cant.
Suffering casualties in a team fight doesnāt automatically mean your team composition failed you know
Bastion is definitely viable in competitive. Maybe not at the very top, but I regularly see people in the masters range who donāt know how to handle themselves once a Bastion shows up.
I donāt want to portray Bastion as being better than he actually is, but I do want to defend him for not being as bad as people think. Nobody tries using him on attack, but Bastion works wonders against a double shield comp on Kingās Row attack, just as an example.
""niche
/niCH,nÄSH/
denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population.āā
Niche doesnāt even mean what you think it does in this context.
Bastionās āNicheā As in, his appeal to that small amount of people, might include the downside you mentioned, being stationary.
But being stationary can be turned into an upside, and even part of a complex playstyle.
Becoming stationary at times of great need, where damage is needed to be applied rapidly or to a specific target in question.
This also factors into Bastionās design in lore, and even the use of the name Bastion:
""basĀ·tion
/ĖbasCH(É)n,ĖbastÄÉn/
noun
a projecting part of a fortification built at an angle to the line of a wall, so as to allow defensive fire in several directions.āā
Bastion becomes a stationary defensive structure, to fire upon incoming threats.
Itās a defensive strategy, rather than a purely offensive strategyā¦ but even defensive strategies can have offensive purpose.
Slowly taking more and more ground towards your enemy is a perfect example, encroaching on the area they can properly defend and pressuring it while your team aid in forcing them to give up the area.
Or, suddenly becoming this Bastion of defense, when the enemy least expect it, turning their attention elsewhere while you surround them, and pressure them equally from multiple points of interest.
How do we make all of this balanced?
Make him similar to how he used to beā¦ originally.
He would still retain his weaknesses, he would even have new ones with how heroes interact with him, but he would actually have exploitable strengths again.
This is something i want for the proposed rework above to address directly. (Please read the thread for more details, and donāt take it at face value.)
Bastion being played poorly in lower ranks would be punishable, while Bastion being played well in higher ranks would be rewarded.
At times.
And i know, knee jerk reactions want for you to say āThat would be so OP!!ā
Think about itā¦ he would be punished for sitting in the same place too long, and the shield would be burned quickly by even just certain heroes alone. At times forcing him to move but not just out right deleting him.
so you googled some semantics instead of considering what I said. it doesnt matter what the encyclopedia defintion of niche is. it matters that his playstyle is narrow because it is stationary. now go google narrow and tell me why bastion isnt a thin crevice.
So you didnāt read what i said, didnāt take it into consideration, and decided to use my own use of semantics as an excuse to deny any facts that may have been brought up.
Good for you.
I did take what you said into consideration, even mentioned the fact that Bastionās playstyle can be rather complex, but did you care?
Noā¦ go ahead and hate.
Or read and come back, when you can be civil and not just label things as āNicheā which in your mind, means āShouldnāt be viableā
any hero can stand still and shoot where it is needed. bastion is the only one who can do ONLY that.
And it should give him other advantages, while the disadvantage is that he has to be still while using these advantages.
Does that not make sense to you?
Itās a direct trade off.
Iām sorry he doesnāt jump around, or strafe, but that is no reason to keep him in the gutter.
the advantage is that he melts entire teams in seconds. the trade off is that he can be outpositioned with ease. which is by design, because he cant move.
Ah, this fallacyā¦
If you canāt add anything constructive, and yesā¦ that means even constructive criticismā¦ Please donāt reply and clutter up my thread.
This is currently an issue because he cannot defend himself properly.
Because contrary to your beliefs, he doesnāt deal that much damage at any decent range or angle. Especially due to lacking headshots unlike literally all other hitscan.
Out positioning just means spamming at him from around corners, which is something he should excel at stopping in close range.
Once again, be constructive or leave. Please.
Even constructive criticism is welcomed, but āHe canāt move/Bad designed hero/Should stay non-viableā Is not constructive in any way.
bastion can melt entire teams in seconds if they play into him. you know he can.
if you want more range, play widow. if you want the ability to deal damage at angles, play soldier. if you want precision, play mcree. if you want a turret, play bastion.
To be fair, as long as he is forced to be stationary, he will not be viable. That is like the worst thing possible in Overwatch. They need to give homie some wheels.
but that hero already exists. soldier.
I still donāt believe thisā¦ not if heās dangerous when stationary.
For once, youāre right.
If you want to deal damage while being able to run around, thatās Soldier.
You seem to main Wrecking Ball, Winston, Zarya, and Orisaā¦ as well as a few main healers.
(Or at least play them mainly)
Of course youāre going to be melted by a few Bastionās in your days of playing.
But thatās no reason to keep him in the terrible place he is.
And you know that.
Im a tank main. because I understand that the game is about varying mechanics, and different situations call for different mechanics. bastion is not a hero, he is a game mechanic. and that game mechanic has its uses. but its uses are narrow, by design. and if you dont like the game mechanic that is bastion, then why do you care about where it is in the meta?
a stable turret is just not that useful when you can put a gun on something with legs.
Bastion, to your dismay, is a hero in this game.
Iām sorry to have to tell you this in this way, but he fills up a hero slot.
Playing heroes for single mechanics is the saddest way to play in all honestyā¦
You lose all sense of āMagicā And in all honesty i guess strip the hero of anything unique when you play like this.
Goodluck, but could you please not clutter my thread with denying that he should be viable?