its dropping because brigitte’s pickrate is getting closer to 100%, and when a hero has a 100% pickrate their winrate cn only be 50% since one wins and one loses every single game.
Yeah… except it doesn’t have to be you per se. Just make sure one is on your team… Which one ALWAYS will be. I’ve never played one game in competitive and didn’t see at least one of Baguette’s counter picks.
She has at least 3 HARD- Counters and 5 or 6 soft counters. Any one with ranged burst damage is a hard counter. Any hero that typically operates on high ground, and anyone who can’t get bullied.
But it still requires coordination and focus.
Yeah but you’re just talking crap… Not reality.
It’s impossible for you to have a hero “mastered” within 30 seconds, then claim you haven’t mastered one that you have 270 hours on… It’s bull.
And for your information I agree that Baguette is an “easier hero” because she has so much utility, but has a much more complex kit than Lucio. And just keeping it real, the community has labeled lucio as a low skill hero a long time ago.
I love Mercy, and I love Lucio, but the skill ceilings on those heroes are admittedly lower than the other supports. you won’t ever convince me or anyone who has half a brain that an AOE is more complex than something that requires aim, is on a cooldown, and doesn’t also heal themselves.
That doesn’t mean that Lucio or Mercy are Low skill… It mean you their skill ceiling is lower… meaning you can do less are get more productivity out of them than heroes like Ana or Zen, where if you don’t have her kit down pact, and your aim isn’t great, you aren’t going to get much use out of her. Or if all you do with Zen is orb your tank and never move it… You’re cutting his hit in half.
None of this is important… I will end this back and forth by saying you need to approach Baguette differently. She’s here to stay, they aren’t ever going to remove the bash, and I can tell that’s what you hate so much, so stay away from her and get used to it.
I’m just here to say I told you she needed a nerf 
You’re right! There is rarely a case of, “Just pick X hero over Y hero and you win”. This isn’t rock paper scissors, man!
There is absolutely some element of awareness, skill, and game sense involved. But Junkrat’s kit greatly advantages him over Brig. Greatly. Same with Phara. Does that mean just pick him and win? No! You still have to hit her.
You still have to equal her in awareness and game sense. You still have to play around the other characters and work as a team. All of that exists. But you have an extremely good chance of engaging her and winning with junkrat. And an extremely low chance of engaging and winning with tracer.
Does that mean its impossible to kill brig with a tracer? Of course not! You can still be a bad brig and lose to tracer. She could come up behind your unaware self and 1 clip you in the face. But its unlikely.
Just play to her weaknesses. Don’t play to her strengths.
Noone disagreed with you. Not a single person here would tell you that she’s perfectly fine. We all said that her perma-armor was likely a problem. And that’s exactly what they’re taking into consideration. So… nothing we didn’t already know, bud.
Her pick rate hasn’t changed, technically if you count today it’s dropped a full percentage point.
First, no I’m not changing anything, I am describing a fight where two players are at range as you described trying to kill one another and survive, which was YOUR criteria, then after accusing ME of “changing” things, you go and talk about DVa going to range, which I already covered in my assumptions. It is you who are changing your assumptions and argument, not me. You started out, and I’ll be more than happy to quote you if you want me to, talking about a head to head. Now you introduce the range angle, and still don’t list your insane assumptions, then you go from “logically impossible” and “100 times out of 100” to requiring “a great DVa”, range, and a braindead Brigitte (which is kind of redundant in the first place).
I don’t care if DVa has more damage potential than Brig, Brig can cancel and deflect DVa’s damage easily. I have not once lost to a DVa one on one or in an open battle using Brigitte, not once. I don’t have the sheer luck of just coming across every idiot who plays Overwatch who happens to use DVa every time I get on Brickhead. There are factors you are missing is we are going to walk down THIS path, which is that Brigitte can easily use cover, corners, obstacles, other players, etc to annihilate any ranged advantage that DVa has. Your assumptions REQUIRE Brigitte to be standing ALONE in the wide open with enough room for DVa to open fire from a range. That Brigitte should delete their Overwatch account, because they have hit rock bottom… being bad at playing BRIGITTE. You cannot fall further than this.
No one EVER claimed that Brigitte puts out a lot of damage, but she puts out enough damage, while preventing and recovering enough life and shielding to kill a DVa consistently 1v1 when she puts the fight on her terms.
You seem to consistently be looking for an angle, but sorry, I don’t play DVa but once in a blue moon, so your “You are a crying bad DVa player” angle is moot, although nice try, it’s not gonna work. I play Brigitte though (I’m a support main through and through), and I clean up with all tanks but Orisa pretty consistently, and even Orisa is mostly a draw, where the one who wins is the one who gets assistance from others. There is no counter to a tank from any other support in this game except one: a good Lucio can make Orisa look like a buffoon on a regular basis.
I wish I was getting as lucky as you, and finding tanks dumb enough to dive on me while my shield bash is up.
When I play winston, i dive on everyone but her while maintaining distance of 6+ meters. When I see her use her shield bash, I dive on her and kill her. Every time.
Ho new PTR PAtch and a small nerf for Bri … No she is not OP, that’s joke
Less a week in comp and already a nerf …
Correct.
Don’t have any issues what so ever killing her with the majority of the roster.
Nice post OP !
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My friend, you don’t even know the difference between a skill floor and a skill ceiling, so please, before you go blathering on about kit complexity, be prepared to just pay attention, and follow.
A skill floor is essentially the minimum package of skills required to have your character perform adequately in an every day setting. A skill ceiling is the difference in character potential that differentiates between the performance at the skill floor and the performance of what a highly skilled player is able to do with that character.
Ana clearly and without argument has the highest skill floor of all of the supports. It takes practice and skill just to be able to perform at the minimum level to keep a team alive in a match. Between aim, sleep darts, cannisters, movement, making use of her small frame, knowing what obstacles she can and cannot heal through, positioning, etc, she is a very demanding character. She also has a high skill ceiling, meaning that the difference between a highly skilled Ana and a low skilled one is dramatic, as is the impact of a rock solid Ana on a team compared to the impact of a moderate one.
Lucio, until today, came in at 2nd in skill floors, due to the complexity of wall riding, however a bad Lucio could still perform his function just by hopping around on the point with heals spamming Amp it Up when it pops. Today’s changes dropped that pretty dramatically, because wall riding is MUCH easier to pick up and use, he is now probably between Moira and Mercy. He has, however probably one of the highest skill ceilings in the game, because his kit enables so many crucial roles, and the impact on a team of a great Lucio vs. an average one is extreme. The fact that his basic heal is an AE isn’t relevant to his skill ceiling, only his skill floor, because he has so much more to do than heal, and this is where you are getting distracted, because you seem to think that Support = heal, which is unfortunately, wrong.
There was a time (which was the same time that the idea that Lucio was easy to play was the consensus) that the consensus was that wall riding was “neat but useless”. We all learned different, that this character has such an extremely broad application of his skills that using him as only a back line healer is a sheer waste of potential. He serves so many roles within a single game, and many of those uses still haven’t even been uncovered. To claim that Lucio has a low skill ceiling is a grotesque display of not understanding the meaning of skill ceilings.
Zen has a fairly low skill floor, meaning a moron can orb a tank or dying player and shoot at people and get away with it, however there is a much larger range to Zen than others, especially when it comes to effectively timing and using his Ult, using him for corner peeking, for target selection sense for his debuff, Pharah management, etc, the Skill Ceiling is high (it’s not Doomfist, Tracer, Lucio, or Genji high, but it’s high).
Moira is interesting because she isn’t easy to define, and her role is more flexible than an average support, and as much as people like to make stupid claims about her, her skill floor isn’t that low. She has the burden of aim, and her healballs have a large range of effectiveness based on proximal geometry (They’re insane inside rooms, but in open areas are not that great unless a large burst heal on 1-2 characters is required, then they are really good again). The difference is that she doesn’t have a ton of potential between being able to adequately perform with her and being great at the character, which means her skill ceiling is lower than others. She is definitely above Mercy at the skill floor, but they are pretty much on par at the skill ceiling.
Mercy is pretty outright easy… no aim, an easy instant switch between heal and damage boost, the primary skill that mercy has to differentiate is staying alive, and clutch resses. She has very fast self regen to make staying alive easier, and piggybacking is prety much the only “skill” required.
All of those are more complex than Brickhead though, Brickhead is super easy to pick up and play without any form of instruction, and the range of what a good Brigitte can do and an average one is quite small. She can be mastered in 30 seconds by an experienced player, 5-10 minutes by a new player who has never played Overwatch before. Her Ult is useful 100% of the time since it doesn’t fade, meaning that timing is irrelevant, and actually holding it is detrimental.
Seems to be that it’s “her first nerf”, as it looks like others are following but not on the PTR.
I counter Widows all the time as Lucio, it’s just one of his many roles. The fact that I can rapidly get to any perch she can get to, generally using a path that avoids poison trap placement, pop 4 headshots as she is scoping and follow it up with a Boop for the kill, and even if I fail to get the kill on the opener, I can keep her busy long enough to essentially remove her from the match by shutting down her sniping, which in some cases is even more valuable than killing her.
After the nerf of the shield radius we have a nerf on his ult and a nerf on the CD of the bash.
It’s a good start.
And as a seasoned level 5 account who I no doubt bet has (like they all do) a GM level main account, I’m sure to believe you.
Even if your scenario checks out, you are removing healing from your team to go on a stupid flank and hope to kill a widow, meanwhile in the time it takes you to get there the widow has already gotten a kill and your team has lost the fight.
But, yeah. I’m sure it works all the time and that’s exactly why we see that brilliant strategy at the pro level.
its much more than that. all of brigs counters are either off-meta, require incredible teamwork, or are easily countered themselves.
Ok but, that’s how they become meta…
i understand that. im simply stating that since they are off-meta no one really plays them.
Which is a huge part of the problem, and this is not directed at you but in general. People are more willing to complain about how a hero needs to be nerfed into the ground than they are to try a hero that is “off-meta”.
Brig can certainly use a little tuning down, I have proposed +1sec CD on shield bash, -2sec CD on flailwhip and -25dmg, the armor nerf from her ult is cool. I think that would still keep her strong and meta defining, the problem with that though, is that it would open the door for the dive meta to come crashing back in, and blizz seems pretty keen on keeping it out.
Until then I just keep preaching to people, play her counters. Hell Junkrat is her strongest counter and he’s meta AF.