There are some OW content creators that have access, connections and relationships with Blizzard employees that you and me do not. That’s simply a fact.
- It’s not that big a problem in reality as these forums make out.
- No, because you will still have to switch to counter when your Junkrat is being flattened by Pharah. Yes. YOU will have to switch, and not the Tank or Support or whoever doing a round-robin around you while you blithly carry on.
- Again, not a real problem. You can queue up with someone 1000SR either side of you, people with that disparity in skill between roles are, realistically, few and far between with a little practice.
World Cup viewer was supposed to be a precursor to replays, and was supposed to be coming with S2 OWL…
I do. But let me use myself as an example. I am a support main. I can bounce from most of the support roster and play with consistent results. But in times of need I have also play tanks, mostly Rien, Orisa, and Winston, but not nearly as consistent as Support. Finally I have played damage and I am garbage, but I will try if I think it will help the team. To me there are true flex players that can play consistent across all roles and then there are players like me that are willing to play any role but results vary.
Sorry if I implied otp was “illegal” not what I meant, just mentioned it because it is a mentality in the player base. I think that a strucutre 2-2-2 would have players that know their roles and would be more knowledgeable about if they encountered a OTP what they would need to do to work with them best they could. Might just be me being hopeful. 
I think there would be more options for players under 2-2-2. I have said this in a thread not sure if it was this one or not, but Jeff says balancing for 2-2-2 would be easier. Which should mean more viable heroes so if they can do that in a way that 10 of the damage heroes are viable that is more option than what we got now. Yes there will be only 2 played at a time but for the 2 players playing damage that is a lot more option.
But if you adopt a do nothing stance then nothing ever changes and can make things worse as well. I mean if someone it very sick bordering on terminal and medicine that is being taken isn’t working. A doctor with a wait and see attitude most likely wont end well for the person that is sick. As I said above, looking back at the history of the game they have only made a change like this one time before and that was the 1 hero limit. I earnestly believe that they would not make a change to core play unless they believed it for the best. They were right with 1 hero limit so I am willing to give benefit of doubt with 2-2-2.
Think I’ve already said it on like other topics. 2-2-2 sounds really good on paper, but it will defintely kill / limit creative plays and tactics, so Blizzard must be really dumb to actually approve of such change …
Has no reasoning. Must be totally correct.
You talk about queue times, but they already know about that. They’re obviously doing something else that you haven’t thought of.
- Yes, it definitely is. Both in QP and Comp. RQ even opens up a possibility of an unranked mode with 2-2-2. The game will be played more seriously where it needs to be, with many options for casual play.
- But you will be able to play the role you want. I’m not arguing for one-tricks. Switching between the same roles and switching roles are entirely different things.
- It’s already been recognized by the devs that there is a difference. Role Queue is happening and it will have SR per role. You can have bad aim but great awareness and be a silver DPS but a master support main in master rank. Instead of throwing the master rank you will play in the rank where you belong as dps.
It truly is mate, because if it fits your play style, sure you have reasons to be hopeful. Some others, like me, feel doomed.
If this is implemented, and not in a “smart” or optional way like the LFG, this might be it for me.
I would hate to say good bye to a game i’ve played since its beta but I will.
Yeah but the hero limit was smart. It was smart balance wise and it did not restrict the player’s options that much. Literally you could switch to anything besides 5 heroes already taken.
When the game adds more heroes, that change they made will be more and more correct.
This “forced” 2 2 2 would make sense in a game where there are 16 DPS, 16 tanks and 16 healers … sure, I would be kinda “meh” in that situation but now? oof … if you are a Support or Tank player you literally have 5 options, 4 if your fellow role mate refuses to switch.
Not my cup of tea. Definitely a big Y I K E S for me.
I don’t know. To me, making sure 5 mercy mains aren’t in my game and are forced to play something they clearly can’t properly play seems like a good enough of an issue being solved. Not to mention individual rankings for different roles. Making people have different ranks for different roles and be placed against different people based on their ranks on those roles.
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I’d love to see this trialled in Arcade. And watch it crash and burn with Mobawatch.
I play all roles, so objectively, no I won’t. I’d have to choose before I queued, then if I felt I had something to offer that was needed in another role, I’d be stuck. They are indeed very different things and cause a confinement of utility. 2-2-2 is a product of player behaviour, player behaviour will remain a problem.
Give me another 15+ Tanks, and maybe that could become less of a problem, but that’s a decade away.
Unlikely, if we’re honest. This applies to something like 12 people. If you can play Ana, you can play Ashe, if you can play Baptiste, you can play Soldier. Sure, my DPS is weaker than my Tanking and Support, but if me DPSing hitscan is what the team needs, I can hit Pharah and that’s what matters. It’s never that complex an issue that needs the full spectrum of play.
Indeed, if anything has held my DPS back, it’s sticking to Tanking and Support. I’m not about to grind out 3 distinct SRs, that’s not my idea of a good time. One’s enough. All that Support and DPS time suddenly seems wasted, especially if I can’t go to it mid-match.
Okay, can you further elaborate on this point? I keep seeing people saying that, but how come that this point hasn’t been echoed and spammed on the forums ever since they limited teams to 1 hero? If anything, that would kill creativity more than implementing a 2-2-2. So how is it everyone is not just magically “fine” with 1 hero limit, but now not okay with this?
Now when you answer, keep Queue times out of it, because long queue times for DPS mains are the problem in every single game that has you queue for a team by role. Look at games like WoW where teams could wait over an hour because a tank or healer isn’t online that want to do a certain dungeon.
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Of course it’ll make the game better:
The complexity of the current system means you have:
(30 x 29 x 28 x 27 x 26 x 25) possible team comps. 427,518,000.
With 2 2 2, you have:
tanks (6 x 5) x dps(17 x 16) x support(7 x 6) = 342,720
That’s over 1000x less permutations, if my maths is right (its probably not - clever people help?)
That’s FAR more easy to balance as a game for the devs, therefore solving SO MANY problems.
Less permutations looks like more mirroring to me. “It’s easier to balance when everything is the same” is the worst possible path they could go down. It doesn’t make it better, no game has been made better when they’ve done that.
I understand this as this is how I feel now. The interest in 2-2-2 is actually drawing me back towards that game. I am down to literally 1 qp/arcade match in a 2 week time frame… where I used to play multiple hours a day with no issues. I mean in prospective right now Anthem is holding my interest more than OW lol.
Yup, statistically that’s correct. 2-2-2 was always gonna have more mirroring compared to 1-3-2, 1-2-3, 0-3-3, 3-0-3 etc, etc.
That doesn’t actually change the fact the game will be easier to balance and therefore will give the devs a chance to make a more solid system.
It doesnt mean everything will be the same though - we have hamsters, monkeys and attack-toasters in this game, things are never gonna be “normal”.
And you’d most likely be higher rank if you only played your best role.
For DPS it’s a longer queue times, for tanks and supports it’s lack of heroes. So who keeps asking for Role Queue? Someone has to have come to the realization that there needs to be sacrifices to improve the game.
Hitting your allies and hitting the enemies are a completely different thing. Healing and DPSing here and there and constantly having to DPS are completely different thing.
That’s what helped Blizzard realize that role SR is needed.
I play all roles too, because i’m always flexing. That doesn’t mean i play everything at the same skill level - my Monkey kicks the crap out of my Genji or Tracer.
No, no game has been made better by making sides more similar. StarCraft was the massive success it was because they maintained factional differences and resisted homogenisation. They realised WoW was made worse by more homogenisation and have tried to dial it back.
Homogenising things has never made a game better.
Aesthetic differences don’t matter if everything plays the same, and if mirrors become more common, even in lower ranks, the game will suffer horribly from it.
I’m not even same skill level in the same role, my Widow and Ashe are way better than my Genji or Tracer. I mean, skill based SR itself even falls over when you look at that. Even on my mains tanking, my D.Va, Wrecking Ball and Orisa far exceed my Winston and Reinhardt.
But I’m not going to grind 3 different SRs. What’s the point?
Its the opposite actually - we’re talking about reducing the variance in a system, NOT the characters. That means strong characters can be strong where they need to be, there’s just less complexity to stop them from pushing to real extremes.
Stupid, imaginary example - Orisa’s damage boost affects the whole team for X% damage. That ult has more numerical effect on the damage of a theoritical 5DPS team than it does on a 2-2-2 team. That’s something the devs have to cater for now. But, not worrying about 5dps means her ult could be pushed to an even higher extreme damage boost!