2.32% pickrate, 47.98% winrate

General Discussion
82

What made him fun back then that he doesn’t have now?

83

Hog 2.0 was perfectly fine and if he were still 2.0 today, with Brig, Moira, etc. he’d be even better. Who says screaming and whining at the top of your lungs doesn’t work. Big Daddy Jeff manned up and confirmed they nerfed him into oblivion because of forums whining instead of actual play data.

3 Likes
84

And then, roadhog mains whined too but nobody cared…

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85

He used to do enough damage with his left click to where a hook combo on squishies heroes would kill them. He was also a deterant for dive comps, as they’d essentially be diving close enough to him that they’d close the distance and allow him to fend them off from killing his backline.

The main change that made him useless was the damage nerf, so he lost his anti-dive status and his hookshot kill ability. He became ineffective at everything his kit was built around, removing his one and only saving grace. He’s unfun, because everything he is supposed to do well became a dice roll of rng and other factors. There used to be far less mobility, CC, and armor too, so there were fewer counters to him. He was an effective counter to many heroes, but he lost his ability to counter them. What made him fun was having an actual impact on the game. It’s the same reasons reaper is unfun and ineffective now too. Reaper used to be the tank buster, but due to power creep, he lost that ability as well. It made these kinds of heroes innefective at the one thing they were supposed to do well. Bastion is another hero of that type that was nerfed. These nerfs are why dive became so OP and uncounterable for most of the game’s lifespan. Imo, the reason we have CC meta now is due to dive having no counters after the key nerfs on heroes like Hog, key buffs to heroes like dva, and added mobility/escapes on others. The only way to stop dive was to either revert those old heroes, or to create new anti-dive characters like Brigitte/Doomfist with a ton of CC, stuns, and knockback. All the heroes much of the playerbase dislikes, and the CC meta that annoys so many was likely a direct result of the previous nerfs/buffs.

2 Likes
86

Damage and Consistency, an actual use for the team.

4 Likes
87

Is there anything else other than the “hookshot one kill combo” that’s changed since then?
I managed to pull off a few hookshot+melee kill combos yesterday with him against a Tracer and Reaper, so it’s definitely still working to some degree.

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Yes, some. He gained one more ammo round (5 instead of 4), although it was still a 30% decrease in overall dps even if the full clip manages to be used. He also gained added survivability by giving him the ability to move during his self heal, and then 50% damage reduction during that self heal. It somewhat helps keep him alive if he misses his hook and has to reposition waiting for the cooldown to end. Those were the changes given, aside from a few hook bug fixes/nerfs that shortened the hook distance, required constant line of sight, would break during specific hero escape animations (if used a tick or two after the hook lands), would break if a player peeks behind cover after the hook using momentum, or if any objects (such as a rock or signpost or whatever) was in the pathway. As a side note to the hook changes, I don’t think any hog mains had a problem with them, aside from bugs causing it to break for no apparent reason listed above.

The issue is that people have with the added survivability changes along with damage reduction is that it’s a net negative for both Hog and his team. Essentially just adding a larger health pool on a cool down timer, it doesn’t do anything to remedy the fact that if the hook misses/breaks, or the hookshot doesn’t get a kill, then Hog’s damage range is too low for him to effectively continue fighting. Outside of enemy players closing the distance themselves, he can’t damage them back, and thus he is relegated to doing trash damage on heroes that doesn’t secure an elim. Without the ability to fight back, added survivability is just another way of giving the enemy more damage totals to raise their ult charge before killing him. He’s a sitting duck in many cases, albiet with a 2 second animation period where he can tank a bit of damage in-between his hook cooldown.

As for still being ‘doable’ in getting hook kills, yes, it can still be done, but mostly only if you hook enemies that were already damaged by your teammates, and if those enemies have their escape/cc/burst-damage reduction abilities on cooldown. You said you killed a reaper and a zarya the other day. Lets break that down as to how. The zarya you hooked cannot be one shot with a hook combo, so she was already damaged. Also, her self bubble had to be on cool down for you to do any damage to her at all. As for reaper, a hookshot combo is also nearly impossible to oneshot, but if rng is in your favor and all pellets hit, maybe. He also had to have wraith on cool down to do any damage at all. In both cases, those players had to have made a misplay by approaching you without their cooldowns, without baiting your hook, and without full health. Smarter/more careful players would not have been caught in that situation, and you would have died had zarya had bubble or reaper had wraith.

Also, let’s look at Hog’s ultimate, maybe the worst in the game. Using it 99% of the time is a misplay for hog, as he leaves himself vulnerable, must leave cover, and cannot self heal. Burning him down happens quickly, as he is an easy target who cannot cancel his ult, cannot move fast enough for cover, and cannot regen health. It usually results in his death, much like Pharah’s ult, but with far less damage, far larger spread, and a far bigger hitbox on a horizontal plane. It also has knockback, which is not what hog really wants (allows enemy to escape and leave damage range), and should only be used in very tight corridors where he can shoot unaware enemies against a wall for continuous damage. Anyone flanking to the side or behind him can instantly burst him down before he kills anyone too. Really, Hog’s ult is sort of like Winstons, except he gains even less mobility and becomes far squishier. Winston’s mostly use their ult as a ‘stay alive’ button, not for damage, but hog gains the opposite, with far less effect.

Edit: Also, due to added stuns, sleeps, and other CC being so prevalent in the game, it’s common for hog to be stunned out of his ult before he can do anything with it. It’s the same problem reaper has, as its rare for teams to let him get it off for kills before he is slept, killed, or stunned while active.

Really though, can anyone name what Hog’s role is in this game? His only viable tank pair is with Orisa, and only because of her halt allowing easier hooks. Problem is, no Orisa in most comp tiers ever call it out, so Hog won’t know when she will use it. Aside from that, orisa has little synergy with other tanks, which is the only reason Hog is used with her. It’s recently even been argued by pro coaches like Jayne that Dva is a far superior combo with orisa, which removes the only viable comp Hog has at his disposal.

Even if none of this matters to you, look at one more situation. If a player can choose between Brigitte or Hog, which should they pick? Brigitte is much the same, in that she has low mobility, low damage range, and about the same dps potential. She also has a hook-like skillshot using her whip ability, and she has self heal. What’s the difference? Well, for one, she has a shield, which makes her far tankier while not providing ult charge to the enemy. She has armor, further reducing damage on herself. She heals others both passively and by giving armor. Her ult is insanely good, which provides permanent armor on everyone around her. She has a shield bash on a shorter cool down than hook, and it goes through shields. She also doesnt have to aim left clicks or her shield bash, meaning she never misses shots in range, never has to reload, her damage is not rng due to random pellet placement, and she does damage to everyone in front of her, rather than just one enemy. She is the far superior tank, who does much of what Hog’s entire kit is built around, but with far superior team play, consistency, dps potential, and team healing. She is everything Hog was supposed to be good at, but with more added. Why is that okay, yet hog can’t even be allowed to do one of the things Brigitte does well? Why would anyone play Hog over Brigitte? Serious question.

I just think Hog needs a damage buff. All survivability changes can be reverted. Everything done to compensate can be taken away. He just needs his original kit to be effective again. He wouldn’t be broken or OP, he wouldn’t be a top tier pick, he would still have a plethora of counters, but he would regain the possibility of having a role in the game, and it would increase his consistency. He’d probably be around C tier, and that’s a good balance imo. Hog was broken OP during launch, because power creep, CC, and mobility were not a thing yet. McCree flashbang was about the only real CC available, and hog countered him. Well, now McCree flashbang is a far shorter duration than brig shield bash, and McCree is a bad pick too. The game changed due to new abilities, new heroes, new ways of playing, and old Hog would be very balanced in todays form of OW. I also think reaper would become viable again too, as he was the classic hog counter. Sadly, armor has made him useless, same as bastion, mccree, soldier, and much of the old cast.

My $0.02

2 Likes
89

Is that character a DPS? If so that pick rate is slightly above average.

1 Like
90

How many dps are there, compared to offtanks? How many choices do people have?

Offtank: Dva, Hog, Zarya 3 choices

You could also possibly add Brigitte and mei as pseudo-offtanks, so possibly 5 choices

DPS: Bastion, Doomfist, genii, hanzo, junkrat, mccree, mei, pharah, reaper, soldier, sombra, symettra, Torbjorn, tracer, widow. 15 choices

You could possibly remove mei, or add Zenyatta/ Moira based on playstyle (jjonak dps zen, all low elo dps Moiras), making it 16 choices

If you want to compare pickrates, you must use a ratio of 15:3 (5 to 1). With Hog being one of only 3 total choices, his pick rate looks even worse.

It scews results quite a bit. You can’t take it 1 for 1 when comparing dps to off tank pickrates

5 Likes
91

I think Roadhog could use more range.

The introduction of Brig means you can’t just charge the enemy any more, but he can’t do anything at even medium range. If he whiffs the hook, he has nothing useful to do.

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92

I didn’t realize it was a Roadhog thread at first, tbh. Wish it was specified in the actual thread and not the replies.

I’ve seen so many people complaining about 4%+ pick rates on a dps hero (Who roughly average at ~2.2%) that I don’t know which frame of reference some people use.

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93

i miss both those things

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94

am i the only person that remembers taht they tried to “fix” hog like three times before they nerfed him?

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95

Me too my friend, me too.

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96

Are you talking about roadhog?

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97

RoadHog died a while ago.

If you want to play RoadHog 1.0 and one-shot combo.people still
…

Just play Brigette. :wink:

2 Likes
98

lol yea i was talking about hog. i am thankful for the bug fix but i still cant imagine it will improve his winrate massively, and his winrate has been an issue for far too long

3 Likes
99

It’s not the same, but I agree. Brigitte is basically a better hog right now. She won’t one shot, but her bash is basically a hook stun, and the one shot potential she gives up just means she kills every squishie in front of her in two shots instead. No aim required, and you can’t really miss a bash like you could with hookshot. I guess this is just the way the game is these days. Hog used to be so fun to play, but blizzard listened to the forum whiners instead. Too bad that they’ve continued to whine about every single hero in the game, proving that listening to whiners is a never-ending futile mess, making nobody happy and everyone angry.

1 Like
100

today roadhog’s pickrate is 1.77%…hog is just improving each and every day :stuck_out_tongue: sadly like most characters with terrible pickrate’s his winrate isnt any good

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Well, like I said before.
They nerfed almost every part of his equipment to the point of it being kinda useless.
That’s a perfect time to buff a character.

To me, Hog has been “broken” ever since his rework, about a year and a half ago.
So the prospect of potentially getting a useful Roadhog in the next month or two, is nice.