Yes I do. SG had powerful synergy with Rally
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it’s piping hot, sisters
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Overbuff is not reliable at all
Why? And better yet, do you have a better source of data?
you cant compare both Syms, they were in a different meta.
This thread was made just after the sym changes went live in comp. The meta then was almost identical to the 2.0 Sym meta, the only difference being the Sym buffs. The conclusions were the same: Sym is bad.
Even if we take the changes that happened afer that into account, the picture is still pretty bad for Sym 3.0 vs 2.0. You see, in unfavourable metas in the past, Sym was still at the very least good on first point defence. Because no matter what you say about her, because she always had good area control.
The devs themselves admitted in the rework that they wanted to nerf her area control, and that is exactly what they did with the turret changes. And consequently her one niche taht she has ever had in the meta, first point defence, is threatened–is it any surprise?
Do you REALLY think 2.0 would have a higher rate now? Cmon dude …
Yes, I do. See above.
Yeah rework was successful.
I see you have a habit for making bold statements with 0 evidence to back them up …
She already ramps up damage faster from M1
Not as fast as any previous iteration.
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Reality.
Streamers, regular gameplay, ingame experience. That trumps any average skewed web based database that is super wrong because of private profiles.
No it wasnt, but even it if was. Sym is not bad. Sym is not in a different spot compared to half of the roster, and certainly in better spot than others (Bastion, Reaper) and for sure in a WAY better place she would be without the rework.
You can think whatever you want, but what was stated on OP has no correlation. Its just like saying “Ice creams suck” just because you live in Siberia. You are purposedly using a biased context to prove a point that doesnt have a direct correlation (and i already explained it)
Experience, reality. Something you seem to be disconnected with.
You didnt provide any evidence either. Pick rates are not a proof of anything without a context and the reality is … Sym 2.0 would even have worse rates.
Sym state -> Pickrate <- Game design.
Should be more like:
Overall game design -> Meta -> Pickrates -> Sym state.
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I’ll be sure to come talk to you the next time I need to check what objective reality it is I’m living in, since you seem to be the authority on the matter. lmao
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They rushed her rework, they wanted it over and done with.
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Reality.
Streamers, regular gameplay, ingame experience.
So anecdotes.
You seriously want us to take your word for it, and actively ignore any objective evidence? LMAO these forums.
that trumps any average skewed web based database that is super wrong because of private profiles.
You have no evidence private profiles have in anyway affected data collection, which you woudl know if you had read the bottom of the first point, where this pseudo-issue is discussed.
Furthermore, even if we were to accept the myth that private profiles is a limtation to the data, that does not invalidate the data, because (and this si the most important part) you have no alternative source of data to dispute it or make a different claim.
We have evidence for our position that Sym is weaker 3.0 vs 2.0. You don’t–why shoudl we accept your viewpoint?
No it wasnt
Care to elaborate?
but even it if was
Thought not.
Sym is not bad. Sym is not in a different spot compared to half of the roster, and certainly in better spot than others (Bastion, Reaper) and for sure in a WAY better place she would be without the rework.
First off, Sym is not better than Reaper. The ONLY ranks she outperforms him is Master & Grandmaster, which is less than 10% of the playerbase.
The only hero Sym is inarguably better than is Bastion, and being the second worst hero is not a stunning endorsement IMO, especially because before the rework she was leagues higher than this. Hell, in beta she was even meta once.
At this point the case is becoming stronger and stronger to revert her back to beta form.
You are purposedly using a biased context to prove a point that doesnt have a direct correlation (and i already explained it)
Every data source has a bias. That doesn’t mean we should stop using data, it means we use more of it. But you are literally offering up nothing new. All you’re doing is attempting the discredit the only metrics we have without offering up anything new because the implications say something you don’t like. You have literally nothing.
Experience, reality. Something you seem to be disconnected with.
Why? Because I attempt to back up my opinions with data instead of forcing my subjective beliefs on everyone by their own merit and attempting to shout down anyone else?
You didnt provide any evidence either
Pls go read the first post in its entirety, it is painfully obvious u haven’t at this point.
Pick rates are not a proof of anything without a context and the reality is … Sym 2.0 would even have worse rates.
No, she wouldn’t, and here’s the context for it: Sym 2.0 could do things no other member of the roster can now, including her current form:
- She could allow all her teammates to self-heal (shield gen). This capability would also prevent many of the oneshots and combo kills that are now common (Hanzo, Widow, Brig).
- She could mass res (teleporter)
- Her barrier and autolock made her a much more effective duelist than 3.0
- the old turrets were better at area denial (maintaining her niche in the meta as first point defence queen, something she has lost since 3.0)
- the orbs + barrier destroyed cheese comps, and actually made her useful on attack
But what is her value now? To provide mobility … why? In a meta where everyone has mobility, why does anyone need Sym?
Oh wait, I forgot she’s also a barrier buster, right? Except she’s not, because Hanzo and Junk can do that job way better than her too. And speaking of Junkrat, he also outcompetes her as a spam/splash damage hero too.
Her turrets are also now useless, cause Torb got buffed, and she can’t be antidive anymore because she lost lock on.
Literally what use does Sym have now? She doesn’t. Sym 2.0, however, did, and would still do, as demonstrated. There’s your context.
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Objective evidence? That was an amazing joke dude.
You are taking the stats for a specific WEEK of one website that doesnt counter private profiles (brutally vast majority of players) as a “base” for an argument of a rework that has been out for WAY MORE.
Dude it was displayed on the VERY SAME WEBSITE for ages, everybody knows this. Its a stat based profile “inspect” database. Im not going to do your research for you. This is known from multiple sites, including masteroverwatch and omnic meta. Look it up.
When the data is not sufficient or skewed, you cant take that as a global measure or a universal truth pal, because that will be closer to a lie than a truth.
Statistics/maths 101.
Wrong and like you love to say “zero evidence provided”. Reaper is way worse than Sym from Plat onwards. His winrates also would support that, now you dont want to look at overall winrates for lets say … 3 months?
…oh yeah, because looking at that would contradict your “evidence”, we have to look only for pickrates because it suits your argument, right? 
Yes she would but then again, we will never know because it is a hypothetical but somehow, you make that claim with zero evidence … but i am not allowed to make any claim like you?
Double standards, good stuff.
Your whole reasoning is based on thin air pal. Its like saying : “GOATS is the meta? well lets buff all DPS damage by 20%! pickrates say so!”
Yeah no. Thats not how balance works mate.
You cant take a random skewed and flawed database, assume is an universal truth and make a far fetched claim, like the pick rate is more tied to the rework and not to the current meta to make a claim like that.
You cant.
But good luck though.
PS: The part of making analysis about a weapon to prove that AIMLOCK is better than having to aim was great. 
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Objective evidence? That was an amazing joke dude.
You are taking the stats for a specific WEEK of one website that doesnt counter private profiles (brutally vast majority of players) as a “base” for an argument of a rework that has been out for WAY MORE.
And to counter this you have offered … nothing but your own personal feelings.
Yeah sorry, my bad, I’m definitely showing my bias here /s
That said, if you want to see me comparing the current Sym with more time periods of Sym 2.0’s existence, read this: 📊 The more things change: Crunching the numbers on the "impact" of the Sym 3.0 rework - #9 by Hypercype-1308
The results? Sym 3.0 is still worse.
Dude it was displayed on the VERY SAME WEBSITE for ages, everybody knows this. Its a stat based profile “inspect” database. Im not going to do your research for you. This is known from multiple sites, including masteroverwatch and omnic meta. Look it up.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear, in which case I’ll rephrase: You have no evidence private profiles have in anyway affected data collection in this specific debate.
There is no evidence that private profiles didn’t affect every hero equally. As such, the affect of private profiles shoudl be undetectable on any one hero’s pickrate, because their pickrate is a percentage of all known data.
So unless you’re arguing that Sym players hide their profiles more than the general community, which as I discussed in the first post there is also no evidence of, private profiles are irrelevant in this discussion.
When the data is not sufficient or skewed, you cant take that as a global measure or a universal truth pal, because that will be closer to a lie than a truth.
Statistics/maths 101.
You have no evidence the data is insufficient tho (see above). And if you’re accursing me of purposefully skewing the data, then unless you have evidence of that, that’s not assuming good faith either, which is poor argumentation.
Wrong and like you love to say “zero evidence provided"
The source is overbuff. I can’t copy paste the entire sit here, follow the reference. the only rank he outperforms Sym in is Masters+
His winrates also would support that, now you dont want to look at overall winrates for lets say … 3 months?
…oh yeah, because looking at that would contradict your “evidence”, we have to look only for pickrates because it suits your argument, right?
I would argue that winrate is only a good indicator of power level/viability when tied to pickrate. Pickrate, however, is a good indicator in its own right of viability; because people like to win, so on the whole the community will play the most powerful heroes.
If anything, on its own, winrate could perhaps be used as an indicator of how risky a hero is to play .
In other words, pickrate how rewarding a hero is to play, and winrate represents how safe (or risky) they are to play.
Good examples:
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McCree has one of the lowest winrates in the game. However, he is certainly not a bad hero, as attested by his high pickrate. He is certainly risky, but his kit is so rewarding that it far outstrips this risk, to the point where McCree is fourth most popular dps even in silver. This arguably makes him OP; McCree shoudl not be this rewarding for only gold and silver players.
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Sombra, on the other hand, has a low winrate and can be called genuinely bad, because she also has a low pickrate. She is low reward, high risk.
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Likewise, on the other side of the spectrum, Brig has a high play rate AND win rate; she is high reward, but low risk, a belief shared by most people in the OW community.
By this thesis, Sym’s low pick but high win ratio would describe her as a hero that is low reward, low risk. The playerbase find it hard to get value out of her, because she doesnt offer much compared to other heroes, and when she is played she is played very safely, which I feel sums up Sym’s situation entirely.
Reaper is similar to Sym but less extreme (low pick, high win), and so is in the same boat. Doesnt offer much compared to other heroes, and so played only in very safe, Reaper friendly situations.
Yes she would but then again, we will never know because it is a hypothetical but somehow, you make that claim with zero evidence … but i am not allowed to make any claim like you?
Double standards, good stuff.
Pls read my posts in their entirety, as I have already given evidence in the form of her pickrate and winrates from before and after the rework.
Furtermore, I have included a detailed analysis of how her previous kit would be even stronger than it was before in the current meta, and provides utility few other heroes have access to now.
Your whole reasoning is based on thin air pal
says the guys who has no evidence still himself.
You cant take a random skewed and flawed database, assume is an universal truth and make a far fetched claim, like the pick rate is more tied to the rework and not to the current meta to make a claim like that.
You cant.
But good luck though.
See above.
PS: The part of making analysis about a weapon to prove that AIMLOCK is better than having to aim was great.
So are you telling me the new weapon is better than the lock-on? Pls do go on.
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Since this is the Symmetra megathread, I’ll copy here one suggestion I just made into another thread, because I think it’s interesting enough to be worthy sharing in a more visible place.
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It has been a year since Symmetra has been reworked, and is still in the same state. I honestly think they need to ramp up the buffs and give her 250 HP, or maybe 4 turrets instead of 3.
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i dont think 250hp would make much a difference.
But i do agree she needs buff.
I preferably want her to get some kind of defensive way for her to survive long enough to make use of her primary.
Sym is seen as a troll pick so her pick rate would be low
Yo this would have been sym 2.0s meta my friend. Dive is much weaker ant that was the only comp holding sym back.
Sym 2.0 heavily countered and fit into bunker comps and had very favorable matchups vs deathball
The only reason sym 3.0 is seeing this improvement is because she is going into a meta that is much more favorable to her. If 3.0 was back in dive she would have more issues than ever before
Wish the devs would let us have a chance to test this. Sanjay with 2.0s kit would make 3.0 look like a joke
I don’t have a problem with 3.0 she deserves to stay in this game. But she is a different character than sym 2.0
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Not really. She wasn’t really good against Bunker. Her alt fire just gave the enemy more ult charge for the support. She also had little range, which isn’t good considering Bunker wants to play far away.
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Naw man piercing orb and shield gen tore bunker apart
She isn’t ourright killing with orbs but she is constantly harassing and dealing damage. While buffing her own team.
She is effectively creating tons of openings for your team while staying safe herself. Sym is constantly doing work where as any other dps has to either flank or break shield to do their work
You brought up ult but since sym had the strongest ult in the game it is alright to trade and give the enemy support ults
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They really didn’t.
Her orbs were slow enough to side step. The only hero she could reliably hit was Bastion, but with Ironclad and healers, she wouldn’t do much but feed ult charge. 75hp from Shield Generator would barely do anything against bunker.
Except how did her work help much, setting up turrets only help defensively, which doesn’t help against Bunker much since it’s not likely to push forward.
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Well that isn’t my experience when fighting high level bunker. Orbs were also very effective against orisa and any hero’s standing behind orisa as she blocked sight lines. And the burst damage was great at striping armor and sometimes wasting halt
Yeah turrets aren’t going to do anything to bunker but no other dps just has given value when fighting bunker. But there is nothing bunker can do to sym. She can just out position them and constantly mess with em
75 hp is stupidly broken shield gen was a crazy ult that only scales in power as your teammates improve. It effectively gives them more opportunities to flank and capitalize on the damage your laying out
Another very interesting combo that smacked bunker was rien firestrike with sym orbs this effectively could instantly pick squishy hero’s and neither of the two hero’s have to go out of their way to set this combo up. It’s already in their gameplan
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So you’re telling me that they wouldn’t side step the slow orbs?
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Why would Orisa use Halt?
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She’s still behind a barrier where her supports can easily heal her.
Pharah and flankers can go around the barrier. Heroes like Junkrat and Bastion can actually help break the barrier. Symmetra can’t do much but feed enemy support ults.
Ana’s Bio-nade can heal 100hp on it’s own. That’s already more support than Shield Generator.
Her orbs moved much slower than a Firestrike so lining them up would be easy. Even then, you’re unlikely to hit anyone other than Bastion, which the combo doesn’t kill.
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Yeah yeah everyone knows in a 1v1 setting it’s easy to dodge orbs but overwatch is a lot more complex than that my friend
Sight lines are huge also abusing the size of the orbs have tons of potential. If you shoot an orb at orisa first off she has to stop shooting to dodge so bam instant value. But also anyone behind her doesn’t get to see the orb until orisa either moves out of the way or if she doesn’t stop furring they never see the orb. Most of the times it’s too late for them. You just have to be clever with orb placement and you could have gotten huge amounts of value from them
Shield gen is broken because of how it affects time to kill. And especially against a comp that is bursting down hero’s time to kill is massive. It gives all of your teammates more time to react and more time to save people especially ones that would die without 75 extra health.
You brought up flankers and those combo exceptionally well with sym. How much easier is it to burst down a half health hero a lot. Especially if they are spending all their times distracted dodging orbs
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