〽 Sym 3.0: worse pickrate than 2.0, winrate DOWN 7%

Everyone agrees on that part.

You are actually wrong on this point. Sym 3 beam does less damage. It only looks good on paper, in a real world the damage is far inferior even with good aim. And it is partly due to your next point so I will explain more after that…

Here is where it gets interesting. Sym 2 ramped up after 1s for each stage, Sym 3 after 2s each. So basically Sym 2 tier 3 is the same as Sym 3 tier 2. Think about that for a moment people. Compare the beams… At start 2.0 does 30 damage guaranteed and 1 second later did 60 guaranteed. 3.0 does only 60 possible even after that one second later. This means that 3.0 with higher than 50% accuracy is slightly better for the first second, then for the next second is significantly worse unless you maintain 100% accuracy. Now after 2 seconds 2.0 does 120 guaranteed, while 2.0 does 120 only with 100% accuracy otherwise it is again significantly worse. Finally a full four seconds after starting 3.0 unlocks its final “bonus tier 4” version of tier 3. And proceeds to only do 180 possible dps which means anything less than 67% accuracy is still less than old tier 3 of 2.0.

And all of that proof of how bad 3.0’s beam really truly is needs to be considered even before you stop and consider how badly the new beam is effected by armor compared to the old beam, and how the new beams are all but useless against mobile heroes. But more on the mobile heroes after your next point.

This is true for highly mobile heroes like Genji and Tracer. The loss of lock-on hurts most versus them. For everyone else the loss of lock is not an issue. What ‘is’ a most important issue is that the devs failed to raise the max damage up enough to off-set aim loss for even world class aimers much less average players. But yes lock on was useful against mobile heroes like Genji, Tracer, or Doomfist. It made her very slightly counter them so at least a fight was more down to strategy and skill and reaction times than a one sided beat down. (Wasn’t one of the things people complained about the fact that there were not enough counters to them… yet Blizzard got rid of one of the few there were…)

I think this again is agreed by most Sym players. 3.0’s orbs are a useful tool, but so were 2.0’s version.

I definitely do miss this. But that being said new sentries are highly useful as well.

100% agreed. Worst decision Blizzard made in the rework in my opinion was to remove Sym’s only defensive skill.

I tend to agree, but this is subjective. Some Sym players prefer the new tp because it can be used for backline dives or turret bombs. And at least at the team tournament level it can be useful. The only fault I give Blizzard on this one is they failed to understand that on the QP / Ladder level, which is 95% of the game, such coordination doesn’t happen.

100% agreed. Almost all of my best 2.0 Sym play occurred after I had my ult up and could really go to town with a healthy damage resistance. Next to the loss of the toss out barrier, the loss of SG is my 2nd biggest regret and comes close to being biggest regret.

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Again, excellent rebuttal of common misconceptions. I think that certainly Sym3 isn’t as far off “good” as we probably used to think, but certainly she deserves a large number of QOL changes.

Because otherwise Torb/Hanzo may be the most successful reworked characters (and to an extent Mercy, who is still viable after 13+ consecutive nerfs), and Sym may be returning to exactly where she was previously.

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Just give her back the old teleporter ultimate. Make her impactful and fun to use.

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I don’t think this is wise or efficacious. I think that the options she has now are perfect, and that they just need some (significant) tweaking to allow her to flourish. Asking for a revert will go nowhere, like with Mercy.

Cant believe I’m saying this but I honestly like the new ult better. I know I know, it’s an unpopular opinion but what it does is so cool. It actually forces the enemy team out of their position, or they have to concede all the space up to the barrier. Because if they want to kill you, they have to cross it. I love that lol

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Comparing Sym’s pickrate to previous iteration is a faulty premise to begin with.

She did not compete in a very large pool of hero’s before. She competed in one of the smallest ones.

She now competes in the largest.

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Sym was not being compared with the healers

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It’s super useful and the near-instant cast makes it almost as good of a response to other ultimates as the old Photon Barrier. I think a part of Symmetra evolving is for this to be her ult.

But it should be tweaked…

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I usually post on a phone, often w 1 hand.

I have quit playing sym. She feels so much more limiting now compared to sym 2.0

She is just a worse junk rat

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^ Sadly that goes for myself as well. I averaged a win rate in the 70~80% rate every season as Sym 2.0. As Sym 3.0 I could easily still win 60% of my games, maybe more, but the lower win rate is not worth fighting the false report crowd like the old higher rate made the risk valuable.

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Yeah same here I was unfortunate where my accounts name was soomatra. I was a gm sym 2.0 with a 70% winrate.

Sym 3.0 is so much worse if you don’t have the element of surprise so I could only manage a 30% Winrate in comp
Now this is my main account I can’t even play on soomatra anymore because my mmr is so screwed up. And I knew I was causing poor games for my team

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Im already playing torb and mei more myself

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Torb is down right nasty now. I’ve been enjoying him a bit myself. I still need to get better at his aim though, that arc and the inherited velocity based on the direction you’re moving is a weird mechanic.

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For those of you who would like to know exactly how much of a buff Symmetra just received by the reduction of charge time, look no further!

If only there were a “meh” emote, even it wouldn’t do justice… :meh:

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My god, I know right. 20% increase, sure sounds impressive, however when you apply that in CONTEXT…it’s like saying I got a 20% salary increase…oooh, that could be good, except I only make $5/ hr. Well, that 20% is looking kinda stanky actually. And that’s EXACTLY where this Sym buff is, pure STANKY, McStanky

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I really do hope that she’ll receive either a 20% faster reload, 20% faster TP placement, or 20% longer beam charge duration… Or all three. Those would be a nice series of 20% buffs.

Overbuff is not reliable at all and you cant compare both Syms, they were in a different meta.

Do you REALLY think 2.0 would have a higher rate now? Cmon dude …

PS: Yeah rework was successful. She already ramps up damage faster from M1, thats the only thing you should expect from Devs in a loooong time.

Arrogant, entitled, but you have a point. I think that she likely would have the same pickrate - probably could see some play with Brig, but never in the pro scene. So effectively, her state hasn’t changed too much. Maybe things got a little better, but not statistically.

Oh also, I see that you’re a Symmetra main. So that makes me beg the question - how can you possibly think that she’s anywhere as effective or reliable as any of the other DPS? Torbjorn’s amazing rework should make for a good point of comparison.

Sym doesn’t need a massive overhaul, but she certainly needs a wide variety of small QOL changes to make her less painful to play.

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Blunt truths tend to have a bad effect on certain people, that doesnt mean the person delivering it has those “qualities” you mention.

I am a Flex player with 50h with Sym on my other account. It is a good question but i guess its … i have good aim i guess?. Its a matter of perception imho but yeah, having good tracking will effectively make Sym 3.0 way better than the previous one.

TP could use some changes though.

I dont disagree with this but then again, that can be said about half the cast.
I just simply hate people using pickrate in a biased statement just to make a point that has no direct correlation with the previous statement :

Sym state → Pickrate ← Game design.

Should be more like:

Overall game design → Meta → Pickrates → Sym state.