please 
revert symmetra
2 Likes
I’ve been really enjoying, and doing very well with, Sym 3.0 in quickplay. I reasonably often take the gold elim/damage over high damage heroes like Hanzo, Junkrat, Reaper, etc.
I would really like to know if she works in comp at all, and what she would need to function there. She’s already a pub stomper if you play her well.
On a personal level, I’ve played Sym for 20 hours in comp at the time of posting, and still have to mute chat, as I find I’m still being called a troll pick/told sym is bad on attack.
Ok just right off on this, I find you are in fact in the wrong on this.
Comp is a type of player, a compeditive player plays the comp games.
If you join comp you are basically saying you want to play in an explicitly competitive way. meaning that a focus on end results is expected and that means no testing and experimenting in the middle of that. If you choose an unproven or trusted toon in comp, i find they are right to see you as a troll to their way of playing the game.
It was well labeled and should have been clear that if you wanted some practice or “to check it out” then QP or custom is the more socially considerate path to take. While doing your personal practice/experimenting in the middle of a real comp game is a rather selfish thing to consider doing.
I am a gamer that prefers the play of the game to being overly focused on the end results. This is why i do not play comp, it would be rude of me to do so, sense i would be unwilling to conform to the expected norms of that demographic of players.
My own xp with Sym has been that she is more useful than she was. However i still find her to be very map specific in terms of how much juice she can bring to the team. Some maps she has amazing tele powers and lazy beam trap locations, others not so much, probably bring more to the team with a different toon.
But as with much of what OW is doing, the juice this toon brings to the table is weighed in far more by the rest of the team interactions than my use of her powers in and of themselves.
Like Reighnheart, the power of the shield is greater the more of the team that will get behind it and lay out some DPS. But if no one ever goes in with him then he tends to make little difference in what happens.
I can drop a dope tele, but if no one uses it then the team get’s no juice from it.
OW is just way way way more demanding/higher bar to entry, than most FPS arena shooters we’ve seen to date. Few FPS games have had so much interaction play demanded between players in order to get the juice. The value of the photon barrier is not measured so much in how long it stays up, but in how much the rest of your team works to make use of it really.
We could double the time it lasts, and still get zilch out of it if team members don’t leverage it well. A barrier placed that can help out to take a point is wasted if the near by team members don’t actually move to stand on the point.
If the comp peeps do not have faith for a toon, it is rude to make them suffer that as a team member. QP folks are a different breed of gamer, we’re more than ok to experiment “on the clock” as it were, as long as we are playing to the objectives.
You clearly dont have much experience w Sym if you think ppl werent playing her on attack.
Syms niche was not just first point defence, but against any barrier comp, particularly 2CP and hybrid ATTACK. Her shield penetrating orbs offered a foolproof way to destroy a barrier comp. But the orbs dont go thru barrier now, and her primary fire is too short range to eat the enemy barriers instead, so she noonger has access to, hence her drop in pick and winrate.
The idea that Sym players just arent good at dps is a stereotype with no basis in reality.
1 Like
Another ‘successful’ rework eh Overwatch team? /s
Just like Mercy and Hanzo but in the opposite direction 
(that being a high pick rate or must pick status).
2 Likes
Are you aware of how Sym 2.0 was played specifically on certain points and often not for the duration of an entire map? There were still the same problems as 1.0, just less exacerbated. Her winrate was inflated. Her pickrate was inflated because people would pick her to ‘cheese’ certain points and get draws or full holds. She was never viable on KOTH because she had no ability to retake an objective and shield gen was impossible to place without the enemy having an easy way to destroy it.
Her recent rework requires people to completely re-learn how to play her, through much trial and error. Take note of the key word here, error. Her winrate and pick rate should be dropping slightly because old sym players who can’t aim can no longer play her, new sym players are just figuring her out, and players of both 2.0 and 3.0 are also trying to figure her out.
It has been how long?
Oh, and your figure of 40million is extremely misleading for your analysis. That is not an accurate representation of concurrent players. That number is the # of copies of the game purchased and had an account log in to play for an undetermined amount of time. Possibly a figure of unique IP addresses to account for alt accounts. Basing any data off that is naive.
people at blizzard call this “A successful rework”
5 Likes
Attack Sym was niche and almost always relied on an initiated pick from an attack hero or tank, so she wasnt played as often but only to the die hard fans that used her. But even then you explanation is what i meant with Choke poke tactics.
And im not being stereotypical, sym now plays more like a dps, and a tougher one at that, and sym mains never really played a dps role as they usually switch to another support instead of dps. But overall her damage and kill potential is better (other than her horrible left click)
This is complete baloney. People continued to say that the community just hadnt learned how to play Sombra properly for up to a YEAR after she had been released, before Blizz relented and finally buffed her.
And when they did buff her? Immediate exit from trash tier, 2% pickrate.
“but they barely changed Sombras playstyle”
Even if we accept that as true (which it isnt, because Sombra 1.0 was focused on EMP spam whereas 2.0 was focused on actually killing), consider Mercy.
Mercy was completely overhauled, her playstyle radically alteted from the hide and seek that was 2.0. Did Mercy players need time to adapt? Nope. Instant must pick.
Did ppl need time to learn the new Hanzo. Even tho literally every aspect of his kit except ultimate had been altered (even his basic arrow speed)? Nope, he went from stigmatised throw pick to S tier DPS overnight.
Or conversely, did Ana players persevere when she was nerfed in order to end triple tank? Nope, she instantly became the worst healer.
Literally every time buffs and nerfs are introduced, the meta shifts instantly. Insisting Sym players havent had enough time is in compatible w reality.
The longer u persist in this delusion that one day the community will just wake up and realise Sym has been secretly viable the whole time, the longer ur preventing the Sym community from amassing the support we need to show the devs Sym needs help.
2 Likes
Today we mark 3 weeks of Sym3 in competitive. What stats to we have?
Winrate around the same level. Pickrate slowly declining to her pre-rework levels.
1 Like
That is nowhere near what I’m saying. I’m saying a lot of Sym players are trying to play her like old Sym, locking down areas and relying on turrets while also realizing the left click is situational while right click is universally good. Sym 3.0 doesn’t play anything like 2.0, it’s practically a different character.
The examples you gave are not relatable in the slightest.
Hanzo maintained his style of peeking shots around corners and going for headshots. The only real difference was they essentially gave him a double jump, and that takes nothing except <a minute in the training range to learn how to use.
Mercy kept her style of flying from teammate to teammate to keep them topped up and apply her beams in whatever way is best for the situation, they gave her an ult that took maybe a day to figure out the timing for when to use it, and an ability on a cooldown that simply requires you to stand on a dead teammate and not die while using it. Her playstyle didn’t change at all.
Ana got nerfed, not reworked.
Sombra was underpowered from launch because the devs put too much faith in the power of hack, hence the 12 second cooldown. Even after her changes she maintains a very similar style.
Symmetra is a completely different story. She was given a powerful mobility tool and her methods of applying damage were completely changed in almost every way. You’re comparing apples and oranges buddy.
And what rvidence do u have for this stance? Oh right, you dont. Its just ur subjective opinion, one which is in complete opposition with the evidence.
Furthermore, saying Sombra had a similar playstyle 1.0 vs 2.0 & 3.0 … Literally how? The fact that they took away her insanely fast source of ult charge (healtypacks) means, like I said, she cant farm EMP for every fight, and the spread reduction made her damage actually lethal. She went from off support to DPS. And now shes being remade into a scout hero. Those playstyles are wildly different, and yet the community has adapted immediately.
Give me an example of a change that had a delayed effect on the meta. Oh right, there isnt one. The effectiveness of buffs &nerfs are apparent overnight. We know this to be true because its happened literally every time there has been a patch. Yet thete are no recorded situations where a change or hero has gone live into comp, then needed multiple weeks of nothing happening before magically taking effect.
Excuses like, “the community is still adapting” are just that: excuses. They said it about Sombra and it was bull. They said it about Ana when she was first released, and it was bull. And now ur saying it about Sym, and its still bull.
Pls wake up and smell the stats.
1 Like
And only “die hard fans” played old Sym, same with current Sym.
People picking Sym are Sym mains, I rarely see dps mains play her, Sym mains play her everywhere most of the time.
She was always played like a dps, she had nothing to do being a support, people just thought that she was a support because she was in the support category (Yes going solo healer Sym was a terrible idea).
^ ^ ^
Why do most Sym mains used to switch to support ?
I wonder. 
I don’t get why people can think a Rein / Winston main can aim but not an Old Sym main, she was pretty much a dps, required good positioning to not get killed by almost everything and be in range of dealing damage.
So no Sym mains are still the same people, y’know the no skilled people who can’t aim, we still play this hero while you skilled people you flame us every 10 seconds for picking Sym while not knowing a single thing about her rework.
I’m gonna say it here to all people who still think Sym is a defensive hero, she’s better on attack.
Got people arguing she’s not, questioning someone who actually plays the hero while you have 10 minutes on her.
1 Like
I don’t even think some of the die hard Sym mains pick her anymore. They managed to make a niche, weak hero even more weak and situational as hard as that can be. Literally, it’s likely Sym will completely die as a hero.
Sym is my favorite hero and I haven’t touched her since the rework came live. Her primary and ult are useless. Will definitely not use her in competitive. She needs major fixes (again for the 4th time).
1 Like
Because the community still false report and throw as soon as you select her. If you don’t have any emotional attachment to the character, it’s just easier to not play her and pick someone else.
I said it before, and I still believe this is the case: Symmetra kit was never the problem. Her reputation within the community is, and you don’t solve that with a rework. You solve that by educating your playerbase. Blizzard need something official akin to LoL Summoner’s Code, or HotS Hero Spotlight.
1 Like
Im not flamming anyone what are you talking about? I didnt mind having syms on my team up until the point where they are gettinh completely shut down and didnt switch. No value from turrets cause winston shutting them down, taking 2:30 minutes to get their ultimate only to get it shut down, etc.
Sym wasnt a dps, she was a support with the highest dps of them. She didnt fit in any category due to inconsistency. She didnt fight offense because of limited mobility or turret shut downs where inconsistent, she didnt tank for obvious reasons of low health pool, she didnt fit defense due to her kit not being able to lock areas unless you are poking at the choke and inconsistent turret damage, and she didnt heal so she couldnt offically fit the support role. She revolved heavily on your team and not so much herself, outside of flanking or running behind photon barrier to a squishy and charging her autolock beam until powered up, holding left click/right trigger until you are locked on someone else.
Also i dont have 10 minutes on sym, but even if i did ive played countless of hours against and with sym mains, i even have a few on my fl, but even when i give syms the benefit of the doubt her flaws where still apparant. With sym 3.0 i know exactly where to put her and finding her best use in fitting that role, and with a few minor changes (mainly to her primary) she could be a straight power house dps.
Sym2 was one of the most independent and versatile heroes in the game. You could fit her in pretty much any composition and play both “team player” and “lone wolf” as needed. You had literally hundreds of ways to vary your strategy based on which firing mode of her gun you wanted to prioritize, where you should place your turrets/SG, and if you want to prioritize your barrier for personal or team use.
Sym2 was terrible against Full Dive, and that’s pretty much it. Which made her terrible against coordinated comps, which is pretty much any pro play. That’s why she didn’t had pro time. Because “ladder dive” was manageable, when you only had 2-3 people jumping to dive instead of the whole team at once, like pros do.
You don’t sustain 60% winrate globally by being carried or picking her to panic full holds. Bastion is picked a lot in this situation as well, and he never had winrates as high as Symmetra and Torbjörn.
3 Likes
Didn’t we already agree that we wouldn’t touch the builders based on their winrates because they were so absurdly bloated that despite their very high winrate numbers these heroes have been the most weakest heroes in any proplay?
1 Like
You could play sym independently but trust me she is very dependent on her team. She couldn’t get in and burst down back line targets like tracer doomfist genji sombra, she doesnt give long range consistent damage like soldier mccree, no burst like hanzo widow doom, create space like tanks. She just sorta did burst damage at choke and hopefully lock damage on to unsuspecting targets. Also her turret strategies are still there and can be performed if you aim correctly and in better scenerios. Like if get up a tele and face the opposite direction and in an angle you can put turrets behind enemy lines never before accessible (I did a tele on the choke of 1p hanamura and angled the sentries into the small room killing a zen trting to hide after taking a fire strike). That’s friggin awesomely insane!
I dunno, i feel sym 3.0 has way more diversity and is a much better char overall, just different.
Trust me, I main her since season 4, and because of IRL health issues, did so from season 7 to 10 with all chat off. She isn’t team dependent. She does rely in the enemy team being a bunch of stray cats with no coordination, but this happens surprisingly commonly outside pro play. Especially because once you start chain winning team fights, the other team tilts for “losing to that terrible hero”.
Sym3 is basically a grounded Pharah, and TP/turret gimmicks are already being caught by the community, just like how SG spots were learned within a month. The good players will learn to use them effectively even after the enemy know their tricks, but she is already losing the Bastion effect around them (ie, “strong because we don’t know how to counter”).
1 Like