It’s. It a projectile crime though it is an object.
There is a key difference you are dialing to u set stand or accept.
what?
D.VA and sigma can eat a bunch of ults too
This is not a good idea because, unlike Mei or Zarya ults where the player chooses the right moment to launch, Baptiste’s lamp is most often used as a reactionary measure to save teammates. This change would hurt Baptiste too much.
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No. 
20 characters
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Yes please?
I’d absolutely love to see bob go bloop, gone
“Bob, do something!”
“I did something momma Ashe!
I got eaten by dva!”
hehe - eats dragon - eats tracer bomb- eats mei ult- hehe …
Funny story, I had a comp match where this…well…kind of happened?
Yeah I know it’s nuts, but here’s what happened. Attacking point A Volkskya. I’m Ashe. My team and I push past the choke and an enemy D.Va goes to dive me. I’m on the left side of the choke, facing the open area towards point B. I throw out Bob since D.Va is Matrixing and I can’t shoot her otherwise.
Bob vanishes. He’s never seen from or heard from again.
Of course, I’m very angry about this. So, I drag my friends into reviewing the replay because they think I’m crazy… They get to that point in the match and watch me launch Bob into a Matrixing D.va, and he’s just gone.
Mystified, we switch to free-floating cam to watch it…and what do we find? Bob launched nearly 90 degrees to the left of my FOV. While I was facing point B, Bob decided to launch into the water behind the point. That’s why nobody saw or heard from him after I launched him.
Its only one matchup that you have to worry about. it’s like mei with her ult yeah be careful with it and don’t waste it. Dva wouldn’t even hard counter him as defense matrix can be baited out.
It increases the skill floor of the ability and adds a new interesting matchup that will distinguish good bap players vs bad bap players
Just because Dva or genji exists doesn’t make blizzard irrelevant it just means mei has to actually think about wether or not it’s safe to use
I actually feel like a lot of good could come out of it as crouch jumping would be an effective way to try and escape Dva instead of just using immortality to just tank her
Grey has said in other posts that he thinks dive should be the dominant meta with other comps being secondary at best. This wouldn’t be about a matchup with a single hero but instead about Bap being completely impossible to play into coordinated dive if this change were to go through.
I don’t think that would be the case though. And it especially wouldn’t be in general ranked or quickplay where you don’t find coordinated teams.
And it would promote bap relying on the team a bit to counter dive comps. Good players will find ways to deal with a change like this in their gameplay.
I don’t like balancing around owl though as they play a different game. We aren’t going to get near that experience
That might be personal bias though as balancing around owl pretty much deleted my favorite hero as I use to be a sym main
Neither of those are what the game is balanced around. Like it or not, that’s the way it is. We cant just pick and choose how we balance. We need to be consistent.
It doesn’t matter if something is possible to play around or not. If it’s more consistent to just play something else, that’s what will happen. Especially in higher tiers.
This would raise Baps skill floor but at zero benefit for the more skilled Bap players. It’s a straight sledgehammer nerf. There would be enormous inconsistency against any kind of coordinated dive so why even bother playing him into dive at all?
Well we can always want a better way to balance the game that benefits the majority of the community.
I’m not talking about balancing for gold or plat though. If it were me I would balance around high masters and high diamond but that’s because that rewards players getting good without worrying nearly as hard with broken synergies that rely on very good communication.
When I played I was a gm player I exploited sym 2.0s strengths that didn’t coordinate with the rest of the playerbase at all though. That’s the real problem of balancing around the best it doesn’t help the majority. But seriously this might be old news as I only played sym 2.0 in gm but I found gm to be quite disorganized but had decent coms
This might just be masochistic of me but I enjoy having counters. Because the feeling of outplaying them is all the more sweeter.
To me it just adds more depth to the game more things that need to be track which is very enjoyable
Here’s how I see it.
A valid, but separate discussion.
I agree. However, we do need to acknowledge that there are (and should be) limits on balance changes that take the experience of playing the hero into account too. Not everyone enjoys being at a disadvantage.
Bap is problematic but in my opinion this just isn’t the right solution. It’s too specific to dive and too punishing for what would be misjudging matrix by a fraction of a second.
Yeah I always look at double barrier as a product of completely removing syms piercing abilities.
Like barrier stacking becomes a significant problem because there is no counter. It use to be pierce which did set up dive hero’s to deal with heavy shielded comps.
It’s just something that use to be countered by a hero that no longer exists and that’s a shame
I don’t want dive to straight up merc double shield though I liked the nuances of relying on a support to set up opportunities to deal with it especially since running sym didn’t result in the enemy team running another sym to counter it run a zarya and get more value. I just wish countering a comp didn’t result in a mirror comp
Completely agree with this statement. A hero’s playstyle and experience should be accounted for. But that goes both ways. Look at it from dva’s perspective as she can stop mei ult and junk mine but not bap immortality. So this idea goes both ways and the way I look at it to mitigate this. Which is to provided the best experience for both parties and matchups.
If Dva can counter bap immortality bap needs ways to outplay this. And one of the ways of doing this is noticing a dive happening to him and positioning himself in a way that he can crouch jump and escape. This would be incredibly rewarding.
I just don’t want a original brig where hey if you are running tracer simply because brig exists you are screwed
Well matrix can’t be spammed which is the opportunity that bap can always exploit. So misjudgment is on his end and him improving with the character will solve that issue
Tbh, any “this would counter doublebarrier at medium range” solution probably wouldn’t work.
It’s close range or nothing.
And I’m totally on board with DoubleBarrier being a not-meta cheese comp.
With Dive dominance, there still would be plenty of secondary and map specific comps at high tier.
And with a good barrier on Sigma and Orisa, then Plat and below would have more variety.
that’s different as those are offensive ults
Well I don’t completely agree with that as I thought sym 2.0 kept it in check. As pierce is the same distraction as a tracer in the backlines except it’s coming from the shields which enemies thinks is safe.
The majority of the comp will also be close range as flankers still need to get around the shields or no work will be done. As peircer had too low dps to be followed up by sym but enough burst damage to be a serious threat and an opportunity for your team
Sym 2.0 relied on the enemy not being able to reposition quickly enough to take her out while completely setting by up her own team for success the moment the enemy switches to dive it is now a disadvantage for sym but she can always outplay them.
Shield gen plus pierce was a perfect combo to crack through double shield comps. Your flankers become less vulnerable as your enemies become more vulnerable
The best part though is that sym 2.0 comps are weak to zarya so there are counters and sym was not completely oppressive to the community. The way sym got around this though was that zarya was typically ran with Reinhardt which was very weak to sym. So sym still stood a chance. But a comp that had zarya and maybe sigma would do well vs sym 2.0 but now you just forced the enemy off double shields so great success