You're not going to compete with Lol, stop

[Bomdanil-1913]

@phaseshifter-1283

Because it’s not that it’s unpopular.

You saw the “or unimportant” part of that sentence right?

@phaseshifter-1283

It isn’t seen by the players at all.

Because people don’t play brawlers to fight creeps. They play brawlers to fight heroes.

@phaseshifter-1283

When you’re playing a competitive game

Which the majority of HotS doesn’t.

@phaseshifter-1283

But only if you actually know what made you win.

Killing enemy creeps for victory was an organic thing that happened, whether intentionally or just in the course of stomping the enemy team with AoE. When you did it strategically you helped your creeps push into the towers so they can soak cannonballs while you siege the towers. When you didn’t do it strategically the enemy creeps still died and your creeps sieged the towers anyway.

And if their goal was to make it more notable to players then they could have increased the text size to match the popup from killing merc camps, or added the audio jingle to killing creeps. Both things would have fixed the “What dis do” problem without breaking the game design for half a dozen characters, and rendered several dozen others out of their element by forcing them to go melee when they aren’t designed to be melee heroes.

@phaseshifter-1283

All the things you mentioned are important.

They’re also more satisfying and impactful to do than AA’ing creeps that pose no danger to you. Murdering creeps for levels is, bar none, the singularly most boring element of HotS, but prior to this change it was a boring element that was easily done without feeling like it was a chore.

Now it feels like a chore.

@phaseshifter-1283

But a contest between you and your opponent on who will succeed in denying xp and come out on top, is interesting to me.

That’s what ranked play is for. Most people don’t see farming creeps as fun ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[phaseshifter-1283]

@Bomdanil-1913

Because people don’t play brawlers to fight creeps. They play brawlers to fight heroes.

I told you. Gaining xp is not about fighting creeps. You didn’t even have to hit a single minion.

@Bomdanil-1913

Which the majority of HotS doesn’t.

Everyone playing HotS is playing a competitive game. Those people might not be competitive. That’s an entirely different issue, and it’s their problem for playing a game that doesn’t suit them. The only way the game can end without a winner is if everyone quits or the servers go down.

@Bomdanil-1913

Killing enemy creeps for victory was an organic thing that happened, whether intentionally or just in the course of stomping the enemy team with AoE. When you did it strategically you helped your creeps push into the towers so they can soak cannonballs while you siege the towers. When you didn’t do it strategically the enemy creeps still died and your creeps sieged the towers anyway.

This isn’t the same as gaining an xp advantage. You could be doing exactly what you describe and the enemy team would have a level lead on you.
Killing creeps < getting xp.

Btw, there was already an audio from killing creeps. But they can only do so much before the screen is full of visual noise, and people start ignoring it because they’re saturated.

@Bomdanil-1913

They’re also more satisfying and impactful to do than AA’ing creeps that pose no danger to you.

And yet people will go kill minions when they could get a fort…

@Bomdanil-1913

That’s what ranked play is for. Most people don’t see farming creeps as fun ¯_(ツ)_/¯

As I said. I denied xp to my opponents before and I wasn’t killing a single minion.

I don’t know who those “most people” you refer to are. But every game, I see players go kill minions instead of performing an action that would help them win. And it happens MORE in QM than any other mode.

[Hellknight-11284]

source? I thoroughly dislike most OW characters, like tracer and Genji. Maybe it was that I was playing them when Tracer, Genji and Ana were OP, but like Fenix on his release, they seemed far too capable of tipping the direction of a game. I didn’t play any of them on release, either, but started playing again after they were in the game, and they were frustrating to play against and easy to play as.
Maybe you’re right, but I would want to see numbers, and correlation =/= causation, so there is that, too. Additionally, I only QM

I still like Ana, though, regardless of her origins. She’s a fun champ, skill-shots take timing and precision, and uh… Gilf. Does u know what that is? That is a Grandmothers that I would like to

[Onceler-11628]

Believe in correlation all you want, but it says nothing about causation lol.

[Bomdanil-1913]

@phaseshifter-1283

I told you. Gaining xp is not about fighting creeps.

Lane soaking, which is the only thing this change targets, is though.

@phaseshifter-1283

Everyone playing HotS is playing a competitive game.

I’m not, nor is anyone else whose preferred play mode exists outside of the ladder.

@phaseshifter-1283

And yet people will go kill minions when they could get a fort…

And yet all of the support for this change is because it will, in theory, encourage people to finally target creeps instead of ignoring them for more satisfying objectives (like the enemy heroes).

[Borsalino-1514]

@Eris-21820

as he can just walk straight through to the back line

I saw a few DWs try that in QM… boy did they get destroyed.

[Onceler-11628]

Ok, so I’m just trying to focus on what I think is the main point of the OP: a point wiht which I agree.

HoTs was far better off trying to be different than LoL, even better. This isn’t to say whether xp globes are like LoL, the point is HoTs shoudln’t be LoL.

People take it as some forgone conclusion that LoL will always beat HoTs because HoTs came after . . . which is just absurd. If that were the case, we’d still be writting on stone tables, and communicating through smoke signals. The truth is, HoTs could crush LoL with the right vision and inovation.

It will never never never win, or even survive, trying to be a LoL clone. How many of you know Hydrox, or Okidoki? Well they are Oreo clones.

If anything, being more like LoL ensures people will leave this game for LoL. Why stay with a free game that is a knock off? At least knock cookies are cheaper.

Now, for what killed HoTs. My opinion is, the game never tried to be competitive. It’s not geared to trying hard, or elevating the best of the best. Worse, the game punishes anyone who tries to give advice, by allowing random defensive teens to report you. To me, HoTs tried to be woke and went broke. Noone cares about a Pro scence for a game who’s more concerned that someone isn’t called bad, than that the best rise and get seen.

When the Pro scence died, the quality of the game dropped to near unplayable for anyone trying to get better.

Personally, I played 5 years of HoTs as my first and only MOBA. The reporting system drove me to recently try LoL and DOTA2, and although I don’t like the game play as much, what I LOVE is that people are trying to imporove.

People call LoL toxic, but I find it a million times less so. It gets rid of bad players -fast- and people will call you out immediately. In the HoTs world, that is toxic and unacceptable BUT in LoL it makes for much much better teams.

If you are new someone will usually immeidately spot it. People open discuss who is bad and good, and what the team should do to adjust. If you just admit you are new, and stay open to tips, you’ll get a TON of advice helping you improve in just a few games.

HoTs is so much the opposite. You can’t say anything to anyone, or you’ll be reported. It makes for a WAY more toxic environment, because the “toxic” people are generally the people who care and want to excell. In HoTs they are marginalized and punished.

So . . . . ironically. HoTs shouldn’t be anything like LoL expect in one important aspect . . . it should start focusing on making sure the very best players are playing HoTs.

[phaseshifter-1283]

@Bomdanil-1913

I’m not, nor is anyone else whose preferred play mode exists outside of the ladder.

You may not be competitive, but you are playing a competitive game. The game starts, and it only ends if you win or lose. You can’t explore, or craft stuff, there’s no character development, no story mode, no puzzles. There is no way this game can be called a non-competitive game. There is NOTHING else you can do but try to beat your opponent or losing.

@Bomdanil-1913

And yet all of the support for this change is because it will, in theory, encourage people to finally target creeps instead of ignoring them for more satisfying objectives (like the enemy heroes).

Yes, because when they should be soaking, they’re not.

[Bomdanil-1913]

@phaseshifter-1283

You may not be competitive, but you are playing a competitive game.

Only if you play it that way, which most don’t. Hell 40% of the player base doesn’t even touch QM or unranked, let alone make efforts to rank on the ladder.

@phaseshifter-1283

There is no way this game can be called a non-competitive game.

You know that vs. AI is a thing right?

@phaseshifter-1283

Yes, because when they should be soaking, they’re not.

You understand that by agreeing with me that you are contradicting your previous arguments over the validity of this change and the design decision to make creep farming more front and centre, correct?

[phaseshifter-1283]

@Bomdanil-1913

Only if you play it that way, which most don’t. Hell 40% of the player base doesn’t even touch QM or unranked, let alone make efforts to rank on the ladder.

Even if you play vs A.I…There is nothing else you can do but defeat your enemy of be defeated.

I’m not sure where your stat comes from. QM is the most played mode in the game.

@Bomdanil-1913

You know that vs. AI is a thing right?

Even if you play vs A.I…There is nothing else you can do but defeat your enemy of be defeated.

@Bomdanil-1913

You understand that by agreeing with me that you are contradicting your previous arguments over the validity of this change and the design decision to make creep farming more front and centre, correct?

No I don’t. This change is to make people soak when they should be soaking. After collecting globes for a few dozen games. They will know that those globes are lost if they stay mid for 10 mins.

[Bomdanil-1913]

@phaseshifter-1283

I’m not sure where your stat comes from.

That would be Blizzard.

@phaseshifter-1283

There is nothing else you can do but defeat your enemy of be defeated.

And that’s irrelevant to whether it’s competitive gameplay, just like SC2 is only a competitive game if you play the ladder.

@phaseshifter-1283

No I don’t.

No idea how I can help you then. Creep farming is boring. This change tries to make it look more important. You agree it’s boring. You also agree that this change was done just to try to convince people creep farming is important because Blizzard felt players put too much priority on other activities in a match; activities that you said were drastically more important than creep farming.

[wishy-2702]

I really don’t get why people complain about exp orbs. It is almost the same as before. If you are stupid and go do camp when you have minions in a safe place in the lane you lose exp. if you go and soak you get exp. People should learn when to push lane, how far they can push it, have map awareness if he/she is going to get punished, learn when is the time to do camp, when to counter camp or gank at lanes and camps. you should learn when you have the advantage. You can lane with every hero. aoe heroes are just faster. you can lane as kt or as jaina no problem. just don’t push the lane under his/her tower and wonder why you got ganked. learn wave freezing. People should stop complaining and star learning basic things in this game.

[Ephraim-11147]

@Eris-21820

they don’t have any sort of negative impact since they can be picked up from quite afar.

if you’re in a bush or invis you can’t pick them up.
So all stealth heroes, Abathur and TLV have been either thrown into the garbage or have been nerfed.

Also it greatly effects heroes like Murky, Azmodan and Sgt. Hammer who rely on getting xp from far away by killing the minions with their AA/abilities.

[phaseshifter-1283]

@Bomdanil-1913

And that’s irrelevant to whether it’s competitive gameplay, just like SC2 is only a competitive game if you play the ladder.

How is it irrelevant that there is no possible non-competitive action available in the game, when defining that it is competitive or not?

I never said anything about competitive gameplay (not sure it’s even a thing) I said HotS is a competitive game. Games are not defined by the behavior of some players. If this was the case, they could not be defined at all since player behavior can be contradictory. Or how would you ever define a game as competitive, or non-competitive before its release?

Anyway, this is irrelevant to the subject.

@Bomdanil-1913

You agree it’s boring

I never said that. To me it is neither boring nor fun. It is what I need to do to win.

@Bomdanil-1913

You also agree that this change was done just to try to convince people creep farming is important because Blizzard felt players put too much priority on other activities in a match;

Blizzard never said why people don’t soak xp. They just said that players were bad at it. When players need to capture a merc camp before an objective, they don’t do that either, because they’re busy trying to get a a kill mid.

@Bomdanil-1913

activities that you said were drastically more important than creep farming.

I never said that either. You said everything else was generally more satisfying than killing creeps(in your opinion) I pointed out that players will often go kill creeps when there are other things they could do. Which means not everyone finds those thing more satisfying.

The XP globes make it more obvious that you should be grabbing xp. But they don’t however do a good job of showing that minion waves are worth more early game than mid/ late game. Or that they are worth more early game than a hero kill. If they can find a way to do that too, then we’ll be in business.

[Xan-1531]

From the looks of it these “anomalies” are doomed or they will doom the game.

[Bomdanil-1913]

@phaseshifter-1283

How is it irrelevant that there is no possible non-competitive action available in the game

Even if you stretch “competitive game play” to include “anything that involves other people” you still have vs. AI.

@phaseshifter-1283

Or how would you ever define a game as competitive, or non-competitive before its release?

Whether or not it has ranked play that necessitates conflict with other players.

[Xan-1531]

It’s ok soon nothing will be “competitive” in this game because there won’t be enough players for the game to exist haha.

[Nemarra-1831]

@MurlocAggroB-1893

Basically, we need more Overwatch heroes.

I don’t play the franchise, but yet I feel comfortable pleading for Blizzard to please…have Mercy.

[Krak-11516]

They don’t have to, HOTS is the better game.

[Front242-21926]

@Xan-1531

The devs keep pushing these Lol’esque changes into the game, the exp globes just make no sense at this point.

First it was the tower ammo, the exp nerfs, then mobility creep characters making half the roster borderline useless.

You see, the time when Hots saw its largest growth wasn’t when it was trying to mimic Lol, on the contrary, it was when the game offered a variety of creative choices (intro of Aba, Tlv).

The devs are literally forcing everything to be the same compositions, characters and playstyle every single match now. Guess what, the game got to life support mode because of this, further pushing it is not going to help it. Stop.

AGRE i love this game becou is NOT same that lol…