The game favors more chaotic matches. and more based on teamfights.
Lol and dota repeats the same formula (last hits, mage mid and adc bot)
And then again, if you want to carry in Hots, you actually need to know how to work togetter.
You cant just play Master Yi get stacked and fed and rightclick core
I played hots and LOL and found more that lol are more perfectionist . Just like he says in 17.40 " its gonna be very borring soaking this and that lane"
Pro matches in lol are also meh. The first big clash only starts around 20 min. And gets intresting after the first 20 min. Before that its just the announcers yelling, WOW HE ALMOST PULLED OFF THAT GANK
But I agree what they say in they are always fighting each other and forgetting lanes
I mean, seriously⌠I wont call dota/lol easy or anything like that, but even bronze monkey will get good at the game repeating the same thing for 5 years. And then there are maps lol.
Yeah exactly! its really hard actually because every monkey is doing the same stuff for 5 years ;p
Must be desperate for views with that clickbait title.
Completely agree with this guy. 100 percent. Players want to PvP they donât want to FARM things. Thereâs too much reward for doing the most braindead thing in this game: killing minions. We should kill minions to protect the towers, we shouldnât have to kill minions so we can level up. If xp was centered around killing other players than killing minions, the game would be a lot more fun.
The source of this problem is clearly: W o fân Warcraft.
Blizzard came up with the PvE algorithms & mechanics and never really left them behind. The weird artificial satisfaction of getting xp doing something tedious â taking camps is boring and tedious.
But the real problem is the uncomfortable marriage of PvE and PvP, which leads to awkward Boss-stealing and players playing a âlosingâ strategy because its always more fun to fight than to farm gems for teh Spider Queen.
Simply put, grinding xp should not be part of this game. Blizzard forces players into a play style that isnât fun and doesnât come intuitively and so becoming âgoodâ at this game means going against your intuition and getting endless practice until you figure out Blizzardâs algorithms and fundamental design which means: you usually want to avoid the fight⌠but then again, a lot of your team members will often do the âwrongâ thing by fighting and you have to join them or they all die, and then you lose anyways⌠so the objectivity of the game is all over the place and the reliance on xp/levels is simply too rigid.
They took too many of WoWâs âprovenâ design formulas and forced them into a competitive PvP game where they donât belong.
Literally none of those elements you just described came from WoW. They all stem from the original DotA WC3 mod and the mobas that followed it.
Silly ideas stay silly ideas, no matter who blurts them out.
If you wanted to play a game where itâs just a 5v5 - go meet at the center of the mapâŚthat type of game is a game like Overwatch, Battlerite or a fighting game, etc. MOBAs are about strategy and how you manipulate your resources like xp, CD and mana.
If only hero killing would grant significant game progress, the following two things would happen:
- No incentive to ever leave the 5v5 in mid lane
- Games in which nobody gets killed would not progress and come to a standstill
Also, logical next step from point 2: Since kills would yield high(est) reward, healers would become important to a point where teams would pick multiple. Thus, even less deaths, even less progress.
Well, he is not exactly wrong tbh. Playing the game âproperlyâ doesnt have to be fun for everyone. Then there are people who enjoy fighting fort whole game.
I think they want hots to be played as it is now.
With 1 player doing the soaking. Solo laning or duel soaking so the rest have space to roam.
And 4 players running around trough the battlefield rotating together doing all the macro
Thats why they nerved the camps xp that you dont get the capture merc camp and forget about that lane status + early catapults.
So in other words more engaging gameplay
@RCW were you in the EU servers a week ago around plat 1 dia 5?
Unlikely, i did my placements a whole while ago and did not touch ranked since.
just another youtuber after all haha
Iâm only commenting on 15 minutes in, but heâs right so far. Blizzard made a mistake when their experience changes, because they ignore one simple fact about games: Risk vs Reward.
If the reward for risky behavior is minimalized as shown, the risky behavior that we get from player interactions is actually mitigated. Instead of awesome skirmishes, you get long, drawn-out safety zones.
But, this isnât the biggest thing to take away from this.
The biggest thing to take away from this is Sylvanas in the casterâs second game. A lot of people will ignore that point, but leaving your hardest lane leader to solo-lane is possibly one of the dumbest things you can do. People think that âstrong lane hero = solo lane heroâ, but this is false. You want to maximize that heroâs potential, not minimize it. That means people in their lane, pushing, working to their strengths and providing a safety zone.
The way I see it, so is HotS a much, much more complicated game, in comparison.
In LoL or DotA all you need to do to be great, is to avoid dying and gather gold as best as possible.
In HotS however, we are dealing with a number of different mercs with varying usefulness and the fact that you should preferably time them in accordance to when the objective starts.
And then we have about 10 different maps with different functions and sizes.
In HotS, there is much more that makes a good player, in comparison to the other games.
Which will of course mean that thereâs going to be more âbad playersâ, as you need to play about 10 times more games in order to be as familiar with the maps as you would be the one map in DotA/LoL.
I donât see this as a bad thing, because I see it as there is a much bigger difference between a good player and a bad player.
A good player who somehow ends up against baddies, either by weird matchmaking in QM/UR (ranked should preferably always be somewhat even), or by the dreadful smurfs, can make a big difference by doing camps consistently and properly compared to the enemy team that might not do that. The good player can also be good at rotating at the right times and what not.
I also think that he oversimplifies that âHotS doesnât punish bad playersâ.
It is true that there is a big difference in how the bad player in HoTS doesnât need to concern themselves with last hitting minions. But a bad player can lose a lane badly, which can cause them to lose the game.
A good example of this is Braxis Holdout. The solo lane can be the defining factor to winning.
Iâve tried games where I dominated the solo lane against the enemy solo laner. One time as Fenix against a Raynor; I killed him about 3 times and forced him to go back to heal a number of times as well.
This means that I gained a consistent lead in experience and map control for my entire team as opposed to just me, not to mention that I effectively denied the enemy a lot of experience since I consistently prevented Raynor from soaking, as well as making the objective easier for my team as my team did not have to assist me and could focus on their own lane while the enemy team would be forced to try and split up and 2v1 me on my lane.
Also, the fact that you donât need to last hit is a good thing as a Healer or Tank can do the soaking job if necessary, even with bad wave clear, where at most theyâll sacrifice some structure health.
In regards to this, I think that LoL and DotA punishes bad players too much, in a way.
In my previous example of Fenix, if that were to follow the rules of DoTa/LoL in gold gain and exp gain, then the Raynor would have fed me tremendously and at that point, my massive lead in EXP and Gold/items would have made me completely unstoppable.
This is an aspect I always disliked about LoL/DotA/HoN/Etc. You could have done just fine on your lane, been last hitting nearly all the minions and managed to get a kill, but the enemy carry on a different lane has been 4-5 kills by your terribad team and he can now 1v1 you without you being able to win because his exp and gold difference is just too big.
I also think he underestimates the significance of winning a lane and pushing lanes even if the experience from structures doesnât amount to much.
Itâs not an experience lead you gain, but a strategic lead you gain.
Letâs say for example that Iâm winning the lane on Infernal Shrines and managed to bring down the gates and front towers.
While it doesnât amount to much in experience, it can amount to a lot in the strategic sense that you have reduced the âSafe areaâ of the enemy.
It will also make a big difference when you win the objective on the lane (which will also be a little easier because you opened up more room for fighting for your team), as the common strategy against The Punisher is to force it to jump over the gates, so it can be focused down by both the towers and the fort while your team can zerg it, while the gates are stopping the enemy team from assisting the Punisher.
Bringing down the front structures can also make it easier to push down a fort/keep in a later push or by mercenaries.
In essence, HotS is a much more strategic game than its competitors, which is an area that is typically more difficult to get good at, as compared to just improving your skill. Which is somewhat obvious by how HotS is considered a âTeam Brawlerâ as opposed to the typical term of âmobaâ.
I do think hoTS could use some improvements in regards to how bad players could be taught.
As it is, when you play QM, the buddy-mentor system could be putting together a high rank Master together with silver and golds. (This also extends to UR but you can check profiles there, but not everyone does that)
But the game doesnât tell anyone that it has done so. As far as the players are concerned, theyâre all equally skilled and knowledgable, and the typical player is pretty arrogant.
So when the Master player extends advice to the others, a very common reaction is anger as they feel like theyâre being told what to do by somewhat at their skill level or worse.
But if the game actually shows who is who, then they might actually listen, and the Master ranked guy might feel more like providing advice and tips and tricks without being unnecssary bombarded by negative flaming.
I recall a match I had where I had a Chromie on my team.
(This was before the recent rework)
The chromie in this case took the level 1 quest for landing Wâs.
And she simply couldnât hit them and was overally doing poorly.
I then asked if she wanted some advice for Chromie and the only reply was a âlolâ.
Checking the account she was actually level 100 on Chromie, So in her mind, she was seeing it as âa lower level Chromie trying to give advice to a high level chromieâ
To that end I had a suggestion to make.
What if, when you load into QM as Whitemane and there is a number on allies that represents the difference in level?
So for one guy it shows -17, so if the player who is Whitemane is level 37, then it means the other guy is level 20 with Whitemane.
But for another guy it shows +50, which means that guy is level 87 with Whitemane. As such the player could ask this person for advice on Whitemane if he wants to and there is a numerical indicator that what the level 87 is saying has some merit since heâs more experienced with Whitemane.
Yeah, but in most HoTs game people run to the mid and face smack each other for 5 min
gotta get that first blood and quests done! Kappa
I agree with much of what you say, but all this complexity is meaningless in 99 perecent of HoTs games. Instead, HoTs is like Taco Bell, there are a million ways to put together maps and team, but in the end, itâs just bad food - the same 5 ingredients dressed up to seem different.
This is because HoTs players are flat out horrible. An example, I just played a game on Rag. My teamates ran to middle and died for 5 min. Then when it was obvious they couldnât win a fight, theyâd go solo lane deep and get crushed.
I have over 500k siege in the the game, and by a miracle managed to keep up close past lvl 20.
I looked at my teamates stats, all around 1 and 10, some worse, 2 and 15. Even despite the ememies having 3x as many kills, they ran to engage fights. I was 6 and 2, the only player with a possitive kill ratio.
I typed, please please, we can win in lanes if you all just stay alive. Donât go deep, donât be solo, just watch the map and avoid getting killed.
Reponse - âdonât be a dickâ or âzzzzzzâ or âI canât control dyingâ . . . either defensive reactions or no desire to learn or improve.
We lost, it was close, but eventually the other team sent around 5 bosses and just pushed core. I took every fort, nearly every camp we sent, and had 500k siege, with a winning kill ratio, and we lost. Others had died 15ish times by the end.
So . . . my point is, when the player base is so clueless they donât even understand not to engage outnumbered and 2 lvls down, the rest of HoTs is irrelevant.
I think HoTs could be the best MOBA out there, but Blizzard must focus on weeding out the bads, with better matchmaking, . . . that would change the face of the game.