Why doesn't Blaze feel good as a main tank?

General Discussion
1

I remember him as a solid bruiser. He was defined by his good wave clear and strong defensive ult but both of those things are much weaker now. I like some of the things the Devs have done to push him into a main tank role but he feels lacking. This may sound odd but he feels like a weaker version of Johanna. She’s a main tank but is very sturdy with strong wave clear and CC elements.

Blaze and Joh both have similarities in their kits but she just functions so much better in the main tank role. Her stun can’t be cancelled for starters and her trait has unstoppable baseline with a large shield to deny damage. Blaze can be counter stunned while his trait only provides armor and has a much longer CD baseline. These things make him feel far less durable in comparison.

Blaze’s strength is a ranged AoE slow and stun. The problem is that once Blaze gets close range he feels lacking. Joh actually gets stronger up close the longer the game goes. Blaze on the other hand looks to dip in and out of fights looking for the best opportunities to zone the enemy.

As Blaze is now you need to play very carefully. He can easily be burst down. His sustain self healing while in fire and his trait seem to not do enough to elevate him to the level of other tanks. He simply feels too much like a utility hero that lacks the damage or sustain to compete like the other tanks.

What is he missing? Is it damage, wave clear or sustain? Is it that he can be interrupted and exploited without too much difficulty? Is Blaze better than I’m giving him credit for now?

2

I did a blaze main tank guide a while ago to better understand his abilities

3

The reason why Blaze doesn’t feel “good” all the time as a main tank is because his stun is a delayed selfskillshot.
But he has great survivability with his slowing oils to peel, so he definitely works as a maintank, just in a sinilar way how Tyrael or Mal’ganis or Arthas or Cho. They need help or allies who don’t need constant babysitting.

4 Likes
4

I play Blaze as a main tank very often in QM, and some times in SL. One of the reasons people feel he is weak is that they play him like a melee tank, similar to JoJo or Muradin, when his real strengths are in his ranged play and zoning, similar to Garrosh. After level 13, and he gets his main damage mitigation tools, you can start to play him a lot more aggressively.

You rarely want to use his E to engage, at least until level 16 and you can talent for the extra armor and CDR. In the early game, use it to escape, peel, or punish divers. Since his E is highly telegraphed, if you have to use it to engage, do so from a shorter range. The area in which the stun applies is larger than most people expect, so use that to your advantage. You can often catch their healer and more aggressive assassins in a single stun.

His W is his bread and butter for tanking. DO NOT LIGHT IT IMMEDIATELY! GRAH! This is probably the most common mistake people tanking on Blaze make. The slow is the most valuable part of his kit when it comes to setting up fights, controlling an area, and creating space for his assassins to do their job. Yes, you can talent for the slow when oil is ignited, and I will take that talent in some matches, but it is a bad habit to get into. I have his W set to On Release so I have the most accurate control of where it goes.

While his self-heal and trait talents are tempting, I much prefer taking his damage mitigation tools. Self-heals can keep you in the fight longer, damage mitigation protects your entire team. Tanking is all about keeping your team in the fight, not just yourself.

Here is my typical main tank build on him, with a few talents that I swap around depending on map and comps:

Level 1) New Habits. I almost always take this one, because it is very easy to complete, Unstoppable on a tank is invaluable, and just the CDR on your trait from globes is worth it. Every now and then I will pick Neural Stimpack, but New Habits is my preferred pick.

Level 4) Oil Dispersal. More oil equals more area control equals more “the enemy has to meet me on my terms”. On the rare occasions I will be picking Grill and Kill, I will go with Adhesive Petroleum, as they have nice synergy, but that is fairly rare.

Level 7) Crossfire. Since Q pierces by default, and reduces the CD on your trait, you should be hitting as many enemies as possible every time you Q. Doing extra damage to them is a solid bonus, and dead enemies can’t kill you. I can’t tell you how many times I have gotten a kill on a fleeing hero because they underestimate the range and damage on Q. I will pick Grill and Kill if they have something like a Samuro, so I can finish the quest quickly. Never pick G&K if they are mostly ranged. I may also pick G&K if there is going to be a lot of very grouped up fighting. That is very rare, though. If you do go G&K, I recommend Adhesive Petroleum at 4.

Level 10) If you are the main tank, Bunker is always a solid choice, especially against something like a Last Rites Malthael. Although Combustion can be very powerful with a good wombo team, until level 20, it is way too easy for the enemy team to avoid unless you are chaining it with other CDs. The movespeed buff definitely did not help Combustion. At all.

Level 13) All three talents are good picks. I will always take Suppressive Fire if their main damage source is a mage, or other ability based heroes. If the enemy Li Ming is silly enough to go Disintegrate, Suppressive Fire shuts her down. It is really good against heroes like KTZ, Orphea, and Q build Valla. If they rely on AAs, go Nanomachine Coating. Remember, you only have to touch the AA hero with the oil to get the attack speed slow. It does not have to be on fire, and they don’t have to stay in it. W has a long enough range, you should be able to make their Zul’jin or Raynor miserable. If you are going Nanomachine Coating, always take Oil Dispersal at 4. Twin Blades Varian? It is to laugh. If I went Adhesive Petroleum/Grill and Kill, I usually take Fuel Leak. Otherwise, go for one of the other two.

Level 16) Thermal Protection. Always. You are a tank, so the extra armor and CDR on your engage/escape/peel is fantastic. In a big team fight, you can often get 3-5 man hits, so have a ton of armor, and your E always available. You can play incredibly aggressively with this talent.

Level 20) Generally I take the ult upgrade. Burn Notice is more of a win-more talent, in my opinion.

Hope this helps!

14 Likes
5

Smells like… potatoes…

6

It’s not just the skill shot though. A lot of his power is delayed. Both his stun and oil have delays/cast time issues that limit their effectiveness. Another problem is the flame stream. You need to spam it into groups for CD resets on his trait but for maximum slow value you need to avoid lighting the oil.

A big problem that stands out is his trait. It feels like you can’t cycle the CD enough to get value and you need a level 1 quest to make it really good. I mean using the charge into a fight is near suicidal since the trait isn’t that great and you can get counter stunned. He lacks any solid damage as well unless you’re landing both streams with the bonus damage on a target. That’s pretty hard to do consistently without the recent movement changes.

In all honesty, I’m not sure what to make of Blaze. I wish he was more like Johanna. I think his talents are pretty solid but some parts of his kit just feel like they don’t mesh well right now.

7

I approve this. Not a Blaze main, but I always went full omegaslow while playing rather passive. Was bit weird/wrong, but I feel better now.

Also, just leaving it here

Johanna is the most braindead idiot-proof hero in the game

slugs away

8

Nice one Hoku; good read

It’s worth noting that blazes AA range is 4.5 which is similar to the likes of cassia or tychus.

3 Likes
9

Blaze is really weird to play because he contradicts his own design so often.

He has a ranged slow, that you don’t want to set on fire because the slow is more valuable than the damage. But it only heals you if it’s on fire, and you need to stand in it to heal, but it’s ranged and so you don’t want to stand in it.

They should make the slow less if its just oil and MORE if it’s on fire as a baseline and replace the talent where burning oil slows with something better. He should heal from enemies standing in the fire, not himself.

2 Likes
10

He contradicts nothing, that’s just decision making forged into his base kit.

That slow is a fixed narrow aoe. You don’t get much value from it if you just keep it as oil for a long time.
I personally use it to setup my E and then set it on fire for dmg and sustain (imo that’s more value than a slow).

3 Likes
11

the thing i feel blaze is lacking is how to keep his armor up. joh( with lvl talent) can keep up shield ever 15 sec. blaze knocks 5 sec off with his q. let say u can hit all 5 heroes with both streams. its a 6 sec cooldown? so u knock off 50 sec of a 90 sec cool down… joh still has more up time. there lies the problem with blaze.

blizz either needs to give him a talent where he gians bonus off the armor for hitting both streams. or make something like that base line. or go crazy get added time when u hit both streams while the armor is up.

1 Like
12

Blaze is underrated as a tank. His Charge especially when talented is basically a one man chain stun in an AOE if you can hit it reliably. His Bunker is an excellent defensive heroic, Combustion is an excellent offensive heroic. He’s a body blocking machine (almost too good at times, blocking your own team) and he has not one but two talents that deal directly with spell damage, which contrasts Johanna’s anti-autoattack talents and abilities.

I like Blaze a lot as a tank. He has good wave clear for a tank, strong CC when talented and is generally just a good pick.

Johanna is great too, but her abilities make her better against AA damage.

13

If you are having a problem with his trait, it is likely you are playing him wrong. As I said earlier, he isn’t a “get in your face” tank like Muradin or Johanna, but a “come at me, I dare you” tank like Garrosh. You want to play the poke game and wait for them to make the first mistake, rather than rushing in and getting destroyed.

Ideally, you would be drafting Blaze into a poke comp, where his oil and the threat of his E creates plenty of space (and slows) for his back line to wear them down. You don’t draft him into a dive team, nor should you treat him like a dive tank.

Wishing he was like Johanna is somewhat like wishing Arthas was like Stitches. It just doesn’t make sense, as that is not why you pick him.

NotParadox had a decent video on how to play Blaze as a main tank, although I disagree with him on some things, they aren’t important points.

1 Like
14

I still hope they give him 0.000001s W root talent at least. Boys peel is kinda meh and what worse, its under the same ability as his only mobility. Root W would deny all the Diablo/ETC Qs or Genji/Tracer dive.

15

Any good tips and tricks on how to get maximum value from his bunker?

  • jump in and out for the armor
  • pick against highly telegraphed big dmg execute abilities
  • use it to block choke points

When do you use it, right at the beginning of a fight?

16

All of the above, honestly, and to try and save team mates from things like Last Rites, Dragonblade, or Pyroblast. You can also use it to tank things like forts or keeps, if your team wants to keep fighting there, and you have a good chance to bringing it down.

Also, the Flamethrowers do a fair amount of damage, so make sure people are using those when in there.

17

I have a hard time believing this when he excels in fights in chokepoints due to his oil being able to cover the pathways. I might be misconstruing your statement.

18

I can fully agree he excells in poke wars. Fact that he is good in chokepoints doesnt have anything to do with that btw.

19

Defensive Blaze is superior to offensive Blaze?

Also in open spaces, Oil Spill loses value.

20

This is exactly the thing that’s bothering me. I mean Blaze’s trait isn’t that great on it’s own but it has an insane CD. I really feel that even with a 30-40s CD it wouldn’t be OP at all. In all honestly, I don’t see why they can’t make it lower. Your almost never going to get more than a 10s CD burn anyway.

All of these are good ideas! I really wish the devs would come up with something to freshen up his play style. I like when my main tanks can go all out into the enemies face for huge value. Blaze right now is just a poke based utility hero.