Why do completely fine heroes keep getting reworks?

Stitches, lunara, Sonya, brightwing, abathur, and so on… Why?

I’m not against them getting reworked. But don’t many heroes need it a lot worse? Tassadar, nova, gazlowe, junkrat, Tychus, and many others should be top of the list for reworks for talent or balance reasons but it’s taking so long, and plenty of heroes who are in a fine spot are getting reworks before them

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Haven’t you made that topic already?

(And seriously, you ask why Brightwing needed changes?)

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Aba?
Stitch?

I would have listed Johanna. Sonya was kind of imbalanced with that +150% poisoned spear

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Not that I recall…

I’d say it’s highly subjective to what a FINE hero is, I mean

Was Malf fine before rework or prefer the one after ?, Tyrande ?, or say even tanks, was previous Diablo better or this current one ?

It’s simply a matter of playstyle I’d say tbh, I actually liked most of them, whenever a rework makes a hero have a baseline “thing” they revolve around and doesn’t stray away too far from the rest of their kit I think it’s an upgrade/fine, therefore Medivh rework was a success if u ask me for example… And yes, probably even Kerrigan

Also Zul’Jin and Jaina = they got one of their most picked talents as baseline upgrade locked on quest = they got hugely revived in terms of talent pickrates builds and stuff

The only rw that was really kinda WTF and outta nowhere to me personally was the Lili one tbh

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Stiches’s rework is very nice with impactful
talents overall.
BW’s intent was nice imho but the numbers and delays between abilities are a turnoff to me.
I am not a lunara not a sonya nor an abathur player so i cannot comment about theirs.
Medivh’s was necessary.
Nova could be great again with numbers boosts i think.
Tychus is great already. Gazlowe needed target on turret and got it.
I agree with tass and am on the fence with junkrat.

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“Completely fine” with you not everyone

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Diablo was maybe better as long as you never dropped souls.
Losing souls late game was almost game over as you were ultra squishy and was even more frustrating when you were winning since getting souls would be suicide if ennemy waves were far away from your core.
The rework does give you options if you lose souls and give talent diversity at the expense of not doing % damage anymore and some waveclear loss. Good enough deal imho.

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“There’s X heroes that need some love so I want Blizzard to rework them all at the same time.”

Sometimes a hero can take a lot of time to get his rework done depending on his complexity or the amount of things they need to change (talents, animations, balance numbers, etc). We are getting pretty nice reworks and changes, just be patient.

Dont touch my Nova you heathen :smiley:.

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Pretty nice talent diversity buff. It cleaned up her boring tree (remember when she had a tier dedicated to Wisp?) and opened up paths for either spread or single-target DPS.

The kindest nerf they could’ve given her. Old Poisoned Spear was so ridiculous, she needed a total overhaul for its removal to not obliterate her kit. Her gameplay is exactly the same and she has more survivability and utility talents. Solid rework.

Haven’t played him on the PTR (he’s unbearable with AI teammates), but I like the idea of the changes. I’ve always been a hardcore healer Abathur player, and it caters to that style. The old “hat dance” was clunky. Also, Monstrosity got a pretty insane buff. It’s not every day a level 20 talent goes baseline.

People are mad that his pushing build has been nerfed even harder, but, and this is my personal bias, I really don’t care. I hate fighting Locust Abathur and I never liked playing it. If it’s gone now, that’s only a plus for me.

please review my threads on the read-only forums on tassdar, kerrigan, tyrande, and now sonya, next will probably be yrel.

the reason is simple: cyclical imbalance.

please view the following youtube video:
/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

that is the answer. there is nothing else to it. blizzard hijacked the same balance strategy as league of legends, and it broke the game. plain and simple.

Lunara’s talent diversity in level 4 and somewhat other tier were a joke lol, “completely fine”.

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Tychus realy doesnt need such a big talent rework. Most of his talents are already pretty balanced, and there is enough build variety for players. There are only a few talents that are counter productive when combined with each other, and some talents being nearly mandatory for certain builds. But still, note the “nearly” here.

That players only take 1 build of a hero because some sites lists only 1 viable isnt a problem on the hero, its about people not understanding the hero.

At level 1 there are 2 talents: extra range, or a faster dash. Combat Tactician is a talent that however could need a rework as its simply not viable to the others

At level 4: ITR and TBTA are both very diffirent talents, and require diffirent builds, this is one of the best balanced talent tiers in the game considering the gains you gain! Even Master Assassin has a niche here when you dont want the ITR, TTS counter-synergy. But master assassin is a talent that should get a rework if ITR and TTS get a synergy again.

At level 7 Quarterback is the dominating talent by far. But both other talents do have their own synergy. Concussion Grenade is a good talent for some extra pushing power, allowing a stronger gap closer. Relentless Soldier however is in most cases useless especialy since the armor rework.

Both level 10 ultis are excelent and very diffirent in usage aswel

Level 13 is the tier which has a few talent conflicts. TTS is a talent that gets weaker over time when you took ITR. And its a conflict that has been a problem since its rework. But if you dont take ITR, it becomes almost mandatory. With ITR Neosteel Coating can be an interesting alternative to take. And especialy with decent healers this can synergize very well. The armor gain is massive and can realy help against a focussed attack.
Spray ‘n’ Pray is however again a talent that feels weak and could deserve a buff. And idealy this would set the range of tychus to its inital range as passive together with the overkill range bonus. This would make it an excelent alternative and let a player choose between 3 ways of safety (self heal, armor, extra range)

Level 16 is a weird talent set as its the weakest of all the talent tiers of tychus. Titan Grenade being very dominating because the grenade is already the prefered upgrade in earlier tiers and most likely has a long range because of that making it an ideal finisher. Lead Rain could potentialy be an interesting choise here if CC was needed.
Armor Piercing Rounds is a talent that needs a rework. It would have been interesting if overkill was a more reliable damage talent to begin with, but its currently only viable if the enemy would have a lot of blinds. And that means its a QM only talent. Since in a draft its very unlikely the enemy would be able to counter it massivly (and if they do, they would create a very big weakness in their own team).

Level 20 has 2 good upgrades for both of the ultis, and even if those upgrades arent needed. It still has a talent that can be potentialy interesting. Sizzlin’ Attacks is a major damage boost which synergizes well with ITR and Master Assassin. But its only viable if the enemy lacks blinds.
Bob and Weave is generaly the most useless talent here unless you for example would face a kelthuzad and you are required to dodge a lot more often. Its a very big niche talent, but still has its uses. And by that doesnt realy need a rework.

So if we count only the following things need changes:

  • Combat Tactician needs to be reworked.
  • Spray ‘n’ Pray needs to be buffed to be able to compete with the other talents
  • At level 13 TTS should be made better suitable to be combined with ITR, other than that its viable already, and if Spray ‘n’ Pray gets a decent change, this talent doesnt even need a rework to begin with
  • Relentless Soldier needs a buff in numbers, or be able to be triggered by more effects.
  • Armor Piercing Rounds needs a buff.

5 changes is not a lot.

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in skilled play, Slam build was the only thing people really built. the rework was designed to make stitches just as useful (maybe even better) while increase talent diversity, hence the baked in slam buffs.

She was pretty awful before, having been power crept and left to die for months.

Sonya needed that rework to be pushed into being more relevant.

Powercrept and offered very little compared to many other supports. the rework brought her more in line with other heroes and gave her % healing baseline as well for some quick burst heals.

i’m not sure if the changes count as a true rework? some things are being lightly tinkered with and moved around but otherwise Aba is the same.

Lol… She was first pick/ban even up to the highest level of play

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I really wish they didnt touch kerrigan, but she got some great stuff out of her rework. Just my opinion. I know some people really liked her changes.

i know right? tass, tyr, kerri, and sonya were all NERFED when dozens of these forumgoers begged for BUFFS

ROFL…

hero reworks need about 3 qualities

1: the problem
2: the demand
3: the solution

some heroes have a demand, or they may have a problem but if there isnt a solution to fix the “problem” then a rework isnt going to roll out.

Of the not-heavily demanded reworks they generally fall into two kinds of heroes: bad talent options or the talent design encourages not using the entirety of the hero kit.

In some cases, a solution may seem to come quickly, for others it may be in limbo for a year+ working out whatever it is apart of the process.

For stitches, slam was a mana sink if it wasnt talented into, and without slam, hes just a hookbot that occasionally has a heroic. With the rework, he has more options and utility available for auto attacks, trait, slam, devour, etc. that enable him into being more than an ignorable walking dot with a displace effect.

bw had similar limitations in q being weak without talents, but opportunity costs on abilities may render the ability not worth talenting into, so it ends up with half a hero that can sometimes teleport — lili had similar issues with serpent and so did several heroes that feel into a string of reworks that looked to bring up the baseline effect of basic abilities so the hero has effects that are useful from the onset.

A few ofher heroes that may get mentioned had a fan followed that “enjoyed” having an ignorable hero that was “unkillable” because the talented effects they took may them a low priority target that could afk in lanes and pretend the rest of their team werent carring an extra load.

If someone wants to know why a hero is reworked then they may want to set aside the notion that something is “fine” in favor of being willing to endure information they didnt expect instead of essentially putting on a display to ask for an echochamber to reinforce the “fine” so expected.

j

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