Yes, they should not happen, yet they happen every day, I JUST played one 4-20 game with yet another 4 level lead, team full of newbies that cannot work together vs a well coordinated team who punishes every mistake. This game was also not winnable. 0% chance of victory. People seem to delude themselves that skill = Can carry bads. This is false. The game is specifically designed to not allow solo players to win by themselves. The hero limitations prove this. Lots of CC/stuns on almost every hero makes sure that you cannot win by pure mechanical skill and you need a team and strategy. Problem is, most people just wanna fight mid all game. Because that is all they know, and the game doesn;t punish them for doing this, so they think this is how you are supposed to play. Failing to understand that the 3-4 level lead is because they are not soaking and constantly dying mid and feeding the enemy stacks and xp as they laugh at my Li-ming trying desperately to double soak lanes for a HOPE of victory that just isnāt there.
I have one too, the link to what happened is here.
It is still my favorite comeback match, on Towers of Doom our core had 1 point at 13:44, we only had 2 of our towers standing and was about to lose another. The enemy had 32 points on their core.
We didnāt give up though and won the game.
If I had taken your advice, yes we would have lost and missed out on a great nail biting match in the process!
This isnāt a comeback, this is a 5 man party with a strategy to just hard push.
The point is that people like the OP get hung up on kills and levels, and if they canāt hyper-carry, they quit. Kills and levels are important, but they arenāt the actual goal of the game, killing the core is. For all we know, the fact that they werenāt in the team fights on their Ming could have been the reason they were losing, not the level difference.
Without a replay it is impossible to say, but as has been mentioned constantly, the only way you can guarantee there wonāt be a comeback is to be a quitter.
What about my example then? This was QM of all things where there are no points on the line and the only hero we had that had good push was Zagara. The fact we could come back as randoms from so far behind was basically because we said at that fourteen minute mark that we wouldnāt give up.
Iām not trying to say comebacks canāt happen, but thereās a big difference between a comeback and a 5 man team with an unorthodox strategy.
With that being said, I donāt want to take away from your comeback, but some players prefer winning matches with skill, rather than luck. Do you believe in your match that your team won because you had more skill or because you had a stroke of luck? Did you use that alt exactly at the right moment because you saw them lining up or was it just a coincidence?
I know that personally, I would get very little joy in a comeback that just felt lucky or if my team completely stomps the enemy team. However, I love fair matches that go back and forth the whole game, even if I lose. Given the choice, I would want to just quit early out of games where my team is stomping the other team, too. I always try to end them asap because itās not fun.
Edit: I donāt mean for that second paragraph to sound condescending, but Iām not sure how to word it. Iāve had matches with similar comebacks, but they never feel to me like my teamās raw skill pulled us back to victory, it always feels like we just got really lucky in one late fight and then the enemy team kept screwing up. I apologize if it sounded condescending.
Oh, Iām sorry, you are in a 5 stack. That doesnāt Count. Remember, they need to be in QM with Randoms, not people who are most likely actively communicating and that you have experience playing with.
Nice comeback though, but on this map is also doesnāt count because you can win with such a disadvantage and just PVE.
All this screenshot with no actual replay or context proves is that a 5-man has an advantage over solos and can make comebacks.
This guy understands me. I like to be the reason I win or loseā¦ I donāt want the game to seem so unfair and pre-determined to the point that I no longer want to even give the Matchmaker the satisfaction of playing this garbage game that I was setup to hard lose. I consider AFK in base my form of Protest. There, I am protesting the Matchmaker, not actually afking.
By AFKing, what I really mean is, I am no longer trying to win and only trying to end the game sooner. Iām at my keyboard, but not actively trying to win (no different than my teammates who are just walking into the enemy1v5), If anything I see it as playing the game my teammates are playingā¦ so by not trying to win, I am essentially just doing what my team is.
Hoku, Iām not saying that skilled and organized players cannot make such a comeback. Rather, players who have proven 30 times that they are inferior, cannot magically start playing to a level that is above what they started out as. You think that a team with 30 deaths to 0 is going to magically start playing good enough to overcome a 4 level lead?
I could have sworn there was a set of goalposts around here. Someone must have moved them.
Although that was an extreme example, the point stands, getting hung up on kills/levels is a good way to lose. Yelling insults at people is never a way to get them to learn, but giving them specific examples of what can be done instead can turn a game around. Here is a pair of screen captures from another match from last week where we were down 3 levels, 16 kills to 4 (which is a bit misleading, as RNG gave me a Murky as a team mate on Hanamura, yay).
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411214289450434560/851868000294273024/unknown.png
Rather than just whinging about how the match was going and pouting in spawn, the Whitemane told Murky to just push the whole time, while the rest of the team should try to stall, rather than win team fights. I think you can guess how it ended.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411214289450434560/851866173390061598/unknown.png
The point all along has been rather than blaming everyone for your losses and quitting, look for different strategies and suggest ways for your comp to find win conditions. Sure, it doesnāt always work, but the point of the game is to play, not to sulk and drag your team mates down.
This match I think it was far more skill than luck. I remember much of our early problems was our Butcher player desperately trying to charge Li-Ming who was always in the backline which resulted in him dying and never trading. If I remember correctly I think it was our Aundiun player who brought this up with the Butcher and we all then decided on a strategy of providing map pressure and fully supporting the Butcher when he did his slightly less wild dives.
It really isnāt luck when as a team of all randoms (this was also vs a 4 man group and 1 random) to make such a huge comeback. While Iām not in the camp of āevery match can be wonā, I stand by my assertion that if you say it canāt be won and sit in base, then you really have no chance to win. Nobody can call a match lost (other than the obvious 25 minutes 1% core health with a boss about to hit your core) with enough accuracy to justify sitting in base and waiting for it to be over.
Or worse, justify calling all your team mates bad. There is never a good reason to do that, no matter how bad they are.
You assumed the goalpostsā¦ noā¦ you in fact you placed them at the wrong place to begin withā¦ Comparing apples to oranges.
Not wrong, but itās more than that. Itās the āHOWā it got there. By having 4x inexperienced teammates matches against clearly superior players.
You seem experienced enough, you should not have any issues admitting that some games are so unfair that they cannot be won by your average Joe. Those games should not happen and that there is nothing to learn being stomped. All you learn, as previously mentioned, is that you learn that there is a maximum effect a single player can have on a game. Sometimes that effect is not high enough to turn the tides.
This here is the reason for this post.
At what point do you ignore the cold hard truth in exchange for a fantasy? Bad players exist, bad matchmaking exist, bring that together and you will get games that are not fair and not fun.
I didnāt even call them bad individually, I legit said that we cannot win because they are better. Our teamās skill is not high enough to win this specific game. They have smurfs. We did not. GG
I agree with this, but I can make the call that Iām not enjoying a particular match and know that even with a lucky comeback, I wouldnāt enjoy winning it enough to put extra effort into prolonging it. Iād rather let the match end sooner and hope for a more fair and fulfilling match the next game.
Of course I have. I have been matched against full 5 man stacks of semi-pro players, or former HGC players who are leveling accounts on NA to participate in CCL. I have had matches where every single one of the heroes on my team is hard countered by something on the enemy team. I mean, my most played hero is Artanis, probably the one that is easiest to counter in the game.
But I donāt resort to quitting or hurling insults at my team mates, as unlike you, I always feel there is value in playing, even when it is all but impossible to win. I will set personal goals such as killing a specific enemy hero, and will often encourage my team to help, because dammit, if I am going to go down, I am taking one of them with me!
I play this game to have fun, and sure, there are matches that are inherently not fun, but I look for ways to gain something of value from those, whether it be trying a different talent, practicing specific actions, or what have you.
Being a jerk to 4 other people is never fun for me.
That I can accept. We differ there as I find the match like the one I linked above to be the sweetest of all victories. Unlike the OP, at least you gave an emotional reason for it, rather than trying to justify it with made up facts.
This right here is where we differ then. I see no value in playing something that brings me no joy.
Huh? Very confused now.
Stomps Minkyā¦ Stompsā¦ Games that are not winnable are not fun, I donāt want to play them.
When my only path to victory is in hoping my 4x teammates who proved themselves unable to win all game suddenly play like gods, That is not fun. A win from that would be considered, pure luck.
Where is the value in insulting others? If you want to be a quitter, just quit. There is no reason at all to browbeat others over it.
Why do you keep pushing for this false narrative that I insulted them? You convinced yourself of this somehow. Unless the truth is what insults them? Then I donāt care how they feel if they cannot handle the facts and truths.
Iām not going to ignore the elephant(s) in the roomā¦